Becky Malke: "Embracing Wicca"

When Becky stepped away from her Catholic upbringing, she didn't just step into the unknown; she danced into the embrace of Wicca with a spirit of curiosity and a thirst for understanding. This episode takes you on a journey through her transformation into a Wiccan priestess, a tale that's as enlightening as it is unexpected. With her background in comparative religious studies, Becky unravels the often misunderstood threads of her chosen faith, revealing a belief system rooted in the sacredness of nature and the cycle of reincarnation.

Transcript

Studying to Become a Wiccan Priestess

Speaker 1 0:02

Welcome to Finding my Religion . My name is Miles Stelps . In this next episode , we're going to be talking with somebody who's studying to become a Wiccan priestess . Now , if you're like me and you have no idea what that means , you are not alone . Before I had this conversation , I had zero clue . The cool thing about this podcast is that I get to talk with people like Becky who are involved with the religion that I've had zero interaction with . If you know any other people that are maybe outside of some of the more religious norms that we have in our society , I'd love to talk to them . Send them my way and with that , let's get into the show . All right , we are back .

Speaker 1 0:54

I have a really special guest with me this week Her , and I feel like I've gone back at least 20 times trying to get this thing set up . A lot of sickness involved in the Midwest right now , which I was caught up in , but really excited to be talking with you , becky , malkie joining me how are you ? Oh , pretty good . Good , we don't know each other , we just met about 30 seconds ago .

Speaker 1 1:17

We got set up with a a couple of people that I've met . We got set up with a mutual acquaintance and this person said that you would be an amazing guest for this podcast . So I'm really excited to get to know you a little bit over the next 45 minutes to an hour . But what should we know about you before we start off ? Like , what do you do ? Where do you live ? All that good stuff ?

Speaker 2 1:42

Well , I live in Madison . I'm from near the UP , but I am living in Madison with my husband and two kids and two cats . I work for a Christian organization , but I'm currently in a ministry training program to become a patron .

Speaker 1 2:03

Yeah , that was . My next question is what's your faith and religion right now ? So I , when I heard that you were going through this program and that you were a part of Wicca , I admittedly had zero clue what that meant , and I think I have a better understanding through some quick Google searches . But what is for you ? What does that mean ? What would be your elevator pitch to somebody ? What the hell is this ?

Speaker 2 2:30

So I will be speaking for myself . One thing to point out is , when you think about Christianity , people will say you know , you don't think to go up to someone and just say explain Christianity to me if you're a Christian , because they know that they may be Lutheran or Methodist or Catholic .

Speaker 2 2:46

So in nature spirituality or the pagan faith traditions there's you know that's the umbrella term and then majority of them are Wicca practice , wicca witchcraft . And then you have other heathens or druids , other nature spiritual beliefs . So I fall under that nature spirituality umbrella and Wicca is the one that I felt most aligned to . And for me , no , I do not believe in Satan . That is a Christian concept and my belief system predates Christianity . So if that is in someone's spiritual faith tradition , fine , it's just not found in mine .

Speaker 2 3:28

I believe and have always , ever since I was a kid , believed in reincarnation . So for me , you know , you don't do a good job in this life , you're reincarnated so you can continue to learn more . So I don't believe that there's a hell because you're reincarnated , not sent somewhere for eternity , but basically it's . I know the movies make it really exciting and you know , flying around on broomsticks , that kind of stuff , I drive a jet off . I believe in a higher being and I believe that all nature is nature sacred . Just being a decent human being , it's really not too dramatic of a , you know , faith tradition .

Speaker 1 4:13

Yeah , it's super interesting . We'd love to hear about how we got to this point . How did you grow up ? Did you grow up in a religious household and , if so , what was the belief system ?

Speaker 2 4:23

Yeah , you know , I think my parents were always trying to instill religion in our lives . We were a family that always talked about religion and politics . I didn't realize that was taboo until , honestly , maybe 10 years ago or so .

Speaker 2 4:40

I really just assumed everybody talked about it . Grew up in a straight ticket Democrat household , blue collar Catholic , strong Catholic traditions on both sides . My mother had gone through Catholic school and had some , had an aunt and a cousin who were of the priestly order , nuns , so you know went to Sunday school , went to Catechism and I think I would say it was a pretty devout Catholic . I had the belief , not that it came from my parents , but that I had this belief that the Catholic faith tradition was the right way . Everybody else was going to hell , of course that I had it figured out and I took the Bible very literally . And again , it wasn't so much that it was from my Sunday school teaching or my Catechism or my parents , that was just something that was in me . Religion has always been really important to me . As a kid I used to pretend that I was a priest giving communion out , would be trying to read the Bible and understand it , was always praying . So it was . It's always been important to me .

Speaker 1 5:57

Yeah , that's interesting . So and you mentioned when we before we started recording . It sounds like that interest carried into into school when you were in college and you mentioned that you did your undergrad I think was in religious studies . Is that what you had mentioned ?

Speaker 2 6:13

It wasn't until the final year and then I switched and made it my major . So I have a major in comparative studies in world religions and a minor in journalism . In print .

Speaker 1 6:23

Got it , yeah , so when you were growing up so you start like devout , you know kids are going to do whatever environment that they're raised into , but sounds like sometimes , like I've talked with people where religion like just really hits you as a kid and you're really into it . Was that the case , like all throughout grade school , high school , and then you want to learn more ? Or how did you get to the point where you were wanting to major in world religions after being , you know , so devout as a kid ?

Speaker 2 6:52

Yeah , because it would be for someone who thought that all the other religions were evil . Right , it is interesting . Yeah , actually it was completely by accident . Senior year in high school teacher , I was taking a college prep English course and we had to do a 15 page paper on any topic and I had my topic planned . My father's side of the family were bootleggers and I enjoyed hearing these stories about how great grandpa got chased by the feds and stuff like that . So I thought that I would study part of that and the prohibition of the 1920s . So that was my set topic .

Speaker 2 7:34

And then one night my mom went to the video store about home of VHS tape of a new movie that had come out called the Craft , and I watched it and there was just something about it that I found very fascinating . And I just suddenly decided , like within a few days , that I was going to switch my topic and I was going to do it on witchcraft , and I started trying to grab anything I could from my small town library , you know , and this was 1996 . So I wasn't . I don't even think I had a , no , we didn't even have a computer at home . So I was trying to find what I could . And what I read , I thought oh , they believe in reincarnation . Now , my family just always accepted it as a fact , even though we were Catholic .

Speaker 1 8:25

Reincarnation .

Speaker 2 8:26

Reincarnation . I thought everybody believed in reincarnation . It wasn't until gosh , maybe after high school , that I was talking to someone and she said you believe in reincarnation ? And I was like , well , yeah , you don't . You know , I thought everybody did . No , we just did . It was just of course there's psychics , of course you could do a tarot card reading , of course there's aliens and ghosts . It was all just .

Speaker 2 8:52

So here is a faith tradition that doesn't judge people for believing that they accept it . The nature aspect I was always very much into the environment and believe in that , the higher being , which I'll say sometimes God , goddess , or the one that the goddess is in everything . So we respect animals , respect nature , trees , plants . All of that was when I was very little . It was important to me , and so here again was a faith tradition that was like , hey , maybe there's fairies out there , maybe there are gnomes , who knows ? And I'm not saying that there are or there isn't . Just here was a belief system that wasn't shutting it down . I was very much drawn to the idea that it was okay if I wasn't a pagan , that nobody was saying you have to be this or you're headed somewhere .

Speaker 2 9:48

No one was saying well , I don't know , you don't want to make the goddess mad . If you don't believe in her , you're going to be reincarnated . No one was saying that . So I was actually also at that time . As I'm studying this for my paper , I was going through confirmation too .

Speaker 2 10:05

So here I'm really comparing and contrasting these two faith traditions . And I remember going on a confirmation retreat and I was in Green Bay and it was an overnight retreat and we're sitting around , lights were shut down , they were lowered and candles were lit and we were praying and chanting and there was incense going and I remember thinking how is this any different than what I'm doing in my bedroom ? And then I started reading more about the various gods and goddesses oh well , this is . We call these people saints . You know many of these are , you know , crossed over and then started to study the you know , easter and Christmas and the solstice , and seeing that a lot of them matched and a lot of these things were the same and that what a lot of people were doing during Halloween or Christmas time were pagan traditions . So eventually I started to make that crossover . It wasn't immediate , but it was maybe a year and a half of really studying , when I was in college too , before I made that that statement of I am pagan .

Speaker 2 11:20

Yeah , just , I had a hard time with this idea of that I would have to give up Jesus . But I met a I had a professor in college who was a Unitarian Universalist and he said you know , we view Jesus as someone who's he's a human being , he's a human rights activist . He had a lot of great things to say and he did a lot of great things , and so you don't have to give him up . And then I learned that there are what are called a crystal pagans , so there's Christians and pagans together that practice the faith tradition . So , you know , on Easter I celebrate not the , not that Jesus has risen , but that his message is born again . Try to live by the , that belief of helping the poor . It crosses over to the pagan faith tradition and also being raised Catholic . You know , there's a lot of talk of the Virgin Mary , there's statues of her , and I was always praying to Mary anyway , because as a kid I always thought well , what does Jesus know ? He's a guy , you know . If I have girl problems . I'm praying to Mary too .

Speaker 1 12:27

You know what I'm going through .

Speaker 2 12:28

you know , I didn't get asked on a date , like Mary's going to understand , and so that was my thinking . So that kind of it wasn't hard is what I'm trying to say to go from being a Catholic to a Wiccan .

Speaker 1 12:43

It sounds . You know , maybe your family was Catholic in name only or maybe in in like , like culturally Catholic somehow , where it's like they needed the community of it . But a lot of what maybe your family believed in was counterintuitive to what Catholics believe . You know , for example , the reincarnation thing . Do you feel like that was the case or do you feel like there it was just like a blending of different , you know belief systems into one ?

Speaker 2 13:11

Well , I think that's a really good point . I grew up with just my dad . In particular . He used to say that he didn't understand why people had an issue with the LGBTQ plus community , and I remember there was a time I don't know if this was in the mid 90s or so it was about adoption . We can't adopt a , you know . And my dad was like I don't , what's the problem , you know , watching the , he watched the news all the time , so we'd have these discussions yeah , a woman's right to choose that something . That was like of course , they have a right to choose .

Speaker 2 13:45

So , yeah , I would say a lot of that does go against . I don't want to say it was a big middle finger to the Catholic church , but it's different , you know yeah , yeah .

Speaker 2 13:56

Yeah , Cause my dad will say sometimes I feel like hell is just that's where we are now , that there's not an actual place , and I'm always like that's not really cat like dad , but it sounds like you grew up in a really awesome progressive household that was at least open to new ideas , whether or not they run counter to what you grew up being taught or not .

Journey of Faith and Self-Expression

Speaker 2 14:17

Yeah , yeah , and it was something that I thought was very normal until I started meeting people in college . And oh , we're not . Oh , I guess not everybody's discussing politics around the table when they're five years old , right , yeah , yeah , I remember .

Speaker 1 14:35

For us it was like you , just didn't talk like you . We all know what we believe , so let's just , you know , not talk about it at all .

Speaker 2 14:41

Yeah , no , my dad was always saying to us kids we'd watch the news as a family and then he'd say what do you think about that ?

Speaker 1 14:48

And then you oh interesting .

Speaker 2 14:49

Yeah .

Speaker 1 14:50

That's really cool . That kind of gives it like probably makes you feel like you're on a level playing field as a kid .

Speaker 2 14:58

Yeah , and I try to do that with my own boys too .

Speaker 1 15:00

Yeah , that's really awesome . I think that's important . So what did it look like going like officially , when you say , okay , I am no longer Catholic , I am pagan ? What did that look like in practice ? Was there like a church that you went to ? Was there like a membership thing that you signed up for , Like how does that ? How does ?

Speaker 2 15:21

it work . It was . I was in Eau Claire . I went to UW Eau Claire and I went online , found some other women and we had , I guess you could say a little coven and so we would do the holidays together . I had joined a and became an active member of a Unitarian Universalist congregation because I felt like I was accepted there , because the UUs draw on various faith traditions .

Speaker 2 15:47

So they have their principles and then they have these faiths that they draw inspiration from , and Earth centered religions is one of them . So I felt very welcome there and there were other people who identified as pagan in the congregation . So I did the eight different pagan holidays with my little coven and then , you know , still celebrated the other religious holidays that other people do . But I was familiar with an organization called Circle Sanctuary and that is about 30 minutes from my house right now , but it was a three-hour drive and it was difficult for me as a college student to get out there . So I subscribed to the magazine and read about it and they're a 200-acre nature preserve and they are a pagan resource center . So it's a nature , spirituality church and resource center for all different types of pagans out there are welcome to come , and I started to learn more about the high priestess there , Reverend Selena Fox , and saw how vocal she was and how she was putting herself out there . She's been doing this since the 70s , so that's the thing . That's shocking is that you have the satanic panic of the 80s and she was just blazing that trail and unfortunately I wasn't able to get out there while I was in college , so a lot of it was me practicing in my dorm room or late at night , going out of the dorm , sneaking out into the woods , doing rituals out there or going to another person's house where it was welcomed by her family . But it wasn't really until I moved to Madison and I was close to the circle that I was able to go out there .

Speaker 2 17:35

But by that time then I started working for a Unitarian Universalist congregation and I was there for about eight , nine years and then started working for a Christian organization . I've been there for nine years , so I felt like I was not practicing my faith for a very long time . You know , part of it was because I was in a place that I wasn't able to get to , where I could be part of a community , and then coming here and almost immediately working for a church , that was that held my beliefs . But I feel like my core has always been pagan . So and then , especially then , going to a Christian organization that's open and liberal and very welcoming of my belief system , but again , it's not mine . So it hasn't been , I would say , the last maybe year and a half that I started going from being a solitary practitioner to practicing . You know , calling the corners doing worship with a group of people , and that's been life-changing for me .

Speaker 1 18:42

Yeah , I can only imagine . I mean that , like I mentioned earlier , the sense of community has got to be huge . When it's not , you're not seeing a Wiccan church on every corner like you do with Christianity .

Speaker 2 18:53

Yeah , definitely , this had been solitary for so long that I didn't realize just how much I needed , and I'm an introvert . So I'm like , eh , people , yeah , but I definitely practicing my faith , I need that . Going up to circle sanctuary and worshiping with a great group of people who are just , you know , they think like I do . You know it's oh , I'm having this issue with my throat . Well , have you hand your chakras cleared ? Oh yeah , I guess I hadn't thought about that .

Speaker 2 19:23

You know that's not a response that you would get from the average person , so I could just be myself out there and talk about things that I've had to keep hidden for so long . You know I can't . I wear my pentacle out , but I am careful . You know , if I have to think about where I'm going for the day , am I in a place that I should be careful ? Do I not wear it ? Do I just tuck it under my sweater ? But when I'm out at circle sanctuary I can just wear it proudly . I can wear my ritual robes if I want to .

Speaker 1 19:53

It doesn't matter , I could just be me . Yeah , that's really awesome . Do you feel like you , you know , especially when you were first deciding that this was the right path for you ? Do you feel like you were hiding that part of you in front of friends , or maybe still were , until you were able to become more comfortable ?

Speaker 2 20:11

Yeah , in high school , after my , after the book report was done , I kept still reading books on witchcraft . So whenever my parents would be like what's this book ? And I'd be like , oh , it's for my book report , you know , even though the book report is done . And then in college , just I guess , having people tell me I'm going to hell , whatever , I don't believe in it , so it's . But it's that belief that people feel like they're better than me , I'm wrong , they're right , I'm evil , I'm satanic , I practice black magic , all those things .

Speaker 2 20:48

It really upset me that I felt like I had an understanding of the truth of the faith , and it was frustrating knowing that there were a lot of people out there who didn't . So I really then decided I'm going to go out and I'm going to not hide who I am anymore . This is who I am . And I had people say they wish they could wear their pentacle out , but they were just going to hide it . But I thought , no , I'm not going to hide these things anymore . I'm going to try to normalize my faith as much as I can . So if there was a discussion about faith and what people believed in , I would actively take part in that . I didn't want to hide it , and that's still my goal . I want to just normalize the faith tradition and just really being inspired by Reverend Fox to see how much she has put herself out there that I think I can do that too .

Speaker 1 21:38

Yeah , that's really cool .

Misconceptions and Community in Wiccan Practice

Speaker 1 21:40

What's the biggest misconception that you found ? Or maybe what's the most frustrating thing that you hear or did hear , that it just isn't accurate . Or if you had more time , you could talk to them about why a thing is a thing .

Speaker 2 21:55

I think it's still them and maybe because I'm in my 40s that I still remember the satanic panic I've had people say that they don't think that's the case today , but definitely that idea that we worship Satan , practice black magic , whatever that is yeah , because for me that is just . It's so evil and gross . And to think that we're associated with something when I view my religion as so beautiful and so pure .

Speaker 2 22:23

We're just this loving group of people out there just wanting to respect nature and human beings and then to associate us with that . I believe that whatever you send out will come back . So we don't believe that in doing spells or hexes or anything like that , because if I do that to someone , it's just going to come back onto me worse . So strong ethics and morals yeah , I think that's the big one for me .

Speaker 1 22:51

Yeah , yeah , that makes sense . What was so ? I would assume that as you were practicing , you know in solitary , as you said , compared to now , where you have this sense of community , you have a leader , someone that has been doing this for a long time . What are the biggest things that you've learned about your religion after having this like a community around you ? Now ? Was there anything that was like oh wow , I didn't know . This or this makes a lot more sense to me now , clarifies whatever .

Speaker 2 23:29

Yeah , I think the first time I was in a group ritual and the energy I felt they were raising energy and you know , I know that you can raise energy and you know , and it's like I tell people , it's if you've ever been in a really good mood and you walked into a room and there's someone who's just been a jerk and then all of a sudden you feel bad and you're like you know that negative energy . So we all can put out different types and we were in a big circle maybe there was like 20 of us and we were calling the elements and , having done that earth , air , fire and water , having done that by myself , and then to being a group where they're doing it , and then you could just feel it .

Speaker 2 24:13

That was just brought tears to my eyes because I thought , oh my gosh , I'm in this place and there's people who are just like me and I can be me , and we're calling upon the goddess and we're calling these nature elements , and I can feel their positive energy . And that's when I realized that I needed people for religion . I can't do it alone anymore .

Speaker 2 24:35

There's nothing wrong with people who are doing it alone , and some people have to do it alone . But for me again , as an introvert , to realize that if I'm gonna call up energy , do ritual really commune with the goddess . I need people to do that .

Speaker 1 24:55

Yeah , yeah , I gotta imagine that's important , like even if you just compare it to any other religion , it doing Christianity or being Muslim by yourself . That would be hard because there's questions like religion . It just leads itself to having questions and wanting to be part of something bigger , even if it's just a community of other like-minded individuals .

Speaker 2 25:18

Yeah , definitely , and , like you just said , having questions , I remember I took part in a ritual and then I'm someone who just feels energy and if it's a little too much , I twitch . And I just kept finding myself twitching and I said , oh , I'm trying to block , it's too much energy that I'm sensing from people . And this woman who was a minister at Circle said , oh , and she told me a trick to get rid of that . She's don't block it , accept it , but here's a way to disperse it . And that's made doing rituals easier for me now . And it was like , oh , wow , all of these things that I had been questioning or wondering about , I can just turn to someone next to me and ask them and get their thoughts and advice . And yeah , that's been . I've just been growing through that , learning from other people .

Speaker 1 26:01

Yeah , that's really cool . What does it look like to practice ? You've mentioned a couple of times of like things , like bringing energy and having , you know , a minister or I don't forget the phrase that you use a priestess , and that's like talking to you . Can you talk about what it looks like ? What are people wearing ? Is there a service ? Is there a sermon ? I'm trying to compare it to my Christian upbringing , you know , being a kid Like how is it different ?

Speaker 2 26:25

So rituals are different , you know , I guess I could just mention one and not to say that all of them are like this , but they're similar in that you know , you get in a circle and we're outside . Try to have everything outside as much as we can so you can really commune with nature . I personally like to really make sure that my shoes are off and my bare feet are touching the ground so I can really ground myself , so we all ground ourselves , deep breath , and then there are . You can either have one person calling the direction , so calling north , south , east , west , earth , air , fire , water , and or you can have different people .

Speaker 2 27:02

So I was at the parliament of the world's religions we're familiar with that in Chicago this summer and we took part in . I Got to Be West , which is my element , which is water , symbolizes emotion . So in this international setting , I got to invoke that and call it to us . So that was amazing for me . So doing that's my favorite part of ritual , and then at that point , you know , we might have some announcements that are going on for the day , because it'll be a festival , it's . You know , we're not at least at circle , we're not meeting every Sunday or anything like that we're meeting during the eight holidays .

Speaker 2 27:42

So this last one was Solon , over the Halloween weekend , and that was a three day festival . The next one coming up will be Yule , and that'll be in December , and that's just a one day , but again we'll have the circle , will be cast elements called , you know , some announcements , meditation , some prayer , and then we leave the circle open and we do our workshops or activities , various programs that are going on throughout the day , and then at the end there's a closing ritual where we close the circle , thank the elements and send them off and then we go off .

Speaker 1 28:24

So it's a , like you said , a full day thing . You're not just like going for a couple hours and then , you know , trying to get back to watch the the Packer game and the Bears game .

Speaker 2 28:34

No , I try to stay . A lot of times I end up having , if it's like , if it's not , if the circle isn't going to be closed until nine o'clock or something at night and I'm like , oh , I gotta get home . It's dark . You know , I'm old , I can't drive at night . That's when I do my own little personal thinking of the elements , you know , thinking the directions and then rocketing back home .

Speaker 2 28:54

But yeah , it can be a long thing , and for the three day festivals there are people who camp , so sometimes they're up at nighttime still , you know yeah .

Speaker 1 29:03

Wow , that's really how many ? How many people are usually a part of these . It's got to depend on the holiday and what the availability people are .

Speaker 2 29:11

Yeah , I think COVID has changed a lot of that . When I'm there , it's can be anywhere from 30 to 50 people . You know , over the course there's a community that's it's the same people that will come , and then a lot of people are coming because Circle is an international organization , so we have people that are coming in from Chicago , Missouri , north Dakota , ohio , and then when there's an online worship service or an online workshop that's being held , then that is something where people are commenting that you know , hi , I'm in England , you know I'm in Canada , I'm in Brazil . So it can be a lot of people , but a smaller group of consistent people who go to these .

Speaker 1 30:01

Sure . So you mentioned at the top that you're actually going in training to be a Wiccan priestess . Talk to me about what that well first of all like . How did you get to the point where you wanted to pursue that ?

Speaker 2 30:13

I had been wanting to go into ministry for a long time . I always thought that it would be . As a Unitarian Universalist minister , I work with children and youth , so I thought maybe , like family ministry would be something . But it just didn't seem right and I wasn't sure and I thought , maybe interfaith . And I happened to be on Circle's website checking out what was coming up next and there was a little thing that I had never noticed before . That said they had a ministry training program and I read about it and thought that's who I am . That's who I am in my core . If I'm talking to some people who are maybe more conservative Christian , I might say I'm a Unitarian Universalist . It's a soft blow . But if you really dug deep , I'm going to say I'm Wiccan . And so I looked at the program and I thought , yeah , this is what I want to do . So we have classes , spiritual care , design and worship , how to minister online ministry a whole variety that you would see in the seminary , and it's a three year program and oh wow yeah .

Speaker 1 31:23

Well , it's like the time commitment for something like that .

Speaker 2 31:26

Let's see I have about . The classes are about . We have pre-work , an hour and a half class . It's online because I'm the only one that's in Wisconsin in the class . You know we meet online for close to two hours and you know we have homework , so it's good . It doesn't take me a lot of work during the week but since I live close to Circle , I volunteer a lot . So there was a transgender day of remembrance interfaith service . That was on Monday night .

Speaker 2 31:56

And I went there as a representative of Circle , took pictures and some video things like that . So that's all part of it . I helped out with a green burial , so it's doable . It's definitely doable in my schedule because I work part-time , full-time , mom you know that's awesome .

Speaker 1 32:14

Yeah , what's it like working at a church and also being a part of this other organization ?

Speaker 2 32:19

Yeah , it's . The thing . Is that the faith tradition that I work for .

Speaker 2 32:26

I believe in it , you know , I believe that they are doing good in the world . They align with my principles . They're open and affirming . They have , you know , fried flag out . They are recently declared a green sanctuary church or creation justice church , so they're committed to helping the environment . They made the planet a member of the congregation . So we need to treat all people , all of our members , kindly .

Speaker 2 32:54

The belief that Jesus stood good in the world and that we should try to be like that . You know people there's some people there who would say I'm a Christian , agnostic . Some are like ah , I think I'm atheist and people are that's okay , it's very just open . Not hell talk , not a lot of God talk , a lot of Jesus talk . But again , it's a faith tradition where I feel comfortable that if other , because I don't care what you believe , as long as you're putting good into the world . So if you were like I'm , you know I'm Buddhist and this is how I'm going to do good in the world and hey , more power to you .

Speaker 2 33:31

I'm Hindu and I believe that we should be taking care of each other and I'm going to do good in the world . You know , because my path works for me and how I view God works for me . That doesn't mean it's going to work for everybody else . So this particular faith I feel or this particular tradition , I believe in it . I'm comfortable teaching the kids about it and the youth and the adults on how to develop that more because it's a good faith tradition . But it gets hard because I do make sure that I always have to say I'm not talking about my beliefs . Some people will ask me well , what do you think of this ? And I would say I got my own unit . Hire me to tell you what .

Speaker 2 34:11

I write , and so it's very much . These are your beliefs . You want to read about mine ? Look on Wikipedia or something like . I just really have a strong boundary with that .

Speaker 1 34:25

It just occurred to me that if Wicca had its own Wikipedia , it could just be Wikipedia .

Speaker 2 34:31

Well , I was one time I was going through the drive-thru to get some coffee and I Get it , but they were the burst . Us were telling jokes and one of them said what do witches use to do research ? Wicked pedia .

Speaker 2 34:52

And when they asked to me , I was like , well , I'm a witch and I guess I mainly use Google . And they were taken aback and apologized and I just it wasn't . I didn't want to make a big deal out of it , but I thought if you were bashing Christianity In the car line , you think people are gonna allow you to do that . So I was just like yeah .

Speaker 1 35:14

That is interesting . Yeah , for sure it's . Yeah , I can't imagine that I would be any different , because I , you know , it's all about people that you know that's when you're the most affected by something . Right , you're like , yeah , just , I grew up in a really you know Just the whitest town in America , it felt like at times , and so we didn't have like people of color that I grew up for the most part , like . There was , you know a few , but you know , I didn't realize people's struggles that weren't white until I was , you know , an adult and it's , you are the environment that you were raised into and it's just fascinating that the more I grow up , the more Things you learn like this , like it's just wild .

Speaker 2 35:57

Yeah , yeah , and I , you know , I married to an Indian immigrant who's Catholic and Hindu . We have biracial , two biracial children , one's an atheist , one's agnostic . Oh my god , how did that happen ? My husband and I are strong theists , you know right .

Speaker 2 36:15

We get two boys that are like you know , um , but I learned so much from them all the time , things that I just , you know , I've known my husband for 20 years now and All the time there's stuff that you'll say things , and I'm thinking , oh gosh , I'm so dumb that I didn't realize that , or , you know . Right yeah , I didn't grow up that way .

Speaker 1 36:39

Yeah , I , the older I get , the more I just realize how dumb I am , and there's just too much information out there for me to try to digest .

Hindu-Catholic Marriage and Reincarnation Beliefs

Speaker 1 36:46

So so you mentioned that your , your husband , is Hindu and then Catholic . Yeah , so have you known him the entire time that you've been involved with wicca , or ? I guess what I'm getting to is like what are the ? What was that conversation like when he found out that you were either going through that transition or that you were , you know , practicing ?

Speaker 2 37:08

Yeah , we met in 2003 . I was doing volunteer work for school for former child laborers . He was my translator and as we got closer I thought I just need to tell him . You know , I'm not gonna hide this from him and you know , in india there are a lot more open about religion and accepting , so he heard that from a couple of people , yeah .

Speaker 2 37:33

Yeah , when I was at the Hindu temple , I went Hindu temple nearby and they had just put up a church and I said what do you think about this church right next to you , know the temple ? And the priest said and I don't care , I just don't like their hymns . And A friend of mine who I met at the school , she was a nun and I said during a big festival they're blaring Hindu mantras through the streets . And I said sister , what do you think of this ? And she's not mine Hinduism , I just don't like their hymns .

Speaker 2 38:07

And there's just uh , this sort of you believe what you want to believe . Um , that's cool . So he was just like huh . And I said I don't believe in satan , hell or anything . And he was just like Okay , you know , he makes this is all a joke , this is all a joke . But he will say things to me like oh man , you know , when you're headed to hell , I will , I'll give you water from my heavenly cloud . And I'll say to him well , when I'm free from the cycle of rebirth , I will wait for you patiently because you clearly have more lives to go through , and once you have completed your life lessons , then I'll talk to you again . But yeah , he's always when I go to work I'll say okay , I'm going to church , you going with me . No , oh , okay , center , it's your soul , you know , and Very open .

Speaker 1 39:00

That's yeah . I like that . So you mentioned going through these life cycles . Is that what reincarnation ? So in my again dumb brain , reincarnation I know that , like you , can come back as something else . But so you're saying that there is a point where you learn enough in life , where then you're done , and what does that look like ?

Speaker 2 39:23

Well , so that's where I'm open to different types of views on this . My husband does believe in reincarnation , but that it could go from people to animals to people , I'm not of the . I'm more people to people , maybe animals , I don't know . I just that's not , I'm not jiving with that . But uh .

Speaker 2 39:43

I think there can be two things one , that you could keep being reborn as much as you want , and then you can choose if you're gonna come back or not . I'm more of the you're going to . This is earth , is school , and Once you graduate from this life , you will go to the next grade . So I don't know what it's like to be a man in this life . I don't know what it's like to be a person of color , so maybe in my next life I'll be a man Of a different race , just to learn what that's . I'm just trying to think of other . I guess for me it's when something bad happens to people . They often get angry with God , and I just never think to blame God .

Beliefs, Reincarnation, and Misinformation

Speaker 2 40:28

I feel like the life that I have chosen , this was preplanned . I have free will .

Speaker 2 40:35

But that there are things that are set for me and I have lessons to learn . Hopefully I learn the main theme that I have for myself in this life . Hopefully I learn that . So then when I die , I graduate on to another theme , another life that I'll need to learn from , and then eventually I've just completely graduated from school , from earth , and I am Reunited with God's energy . That's always in me , god's always around me , but that I get absorbed into that light again when I'm done . But then I have friends who are psychics and Communicate with those who have passed , who have said I'm not coming back . I chose not to come back . You know I'm done with my life cycle . So I'm always like , oh , you get a choice . So I don't know , I haven't , yeah , decided yet , but all I know is that when something bad happens , it's meant to happen , it's a growth situation . It's a growth situation . There's a lesson behind it and that it's not . I'm not going to blame God or get Ingrate with God for that .

Speaker 1 41:39

Sure , that makes sense . How ? So you mentioned that you believe in free will , but then things are pre planned . How ? How do those things you know exist with one another ?

Speaker 2 41:51

Um . Do you watch dr who ?

Speaker 1 41:53

No , I don't actually .

Speaker 2 41:56

You know I actually have a dr who in theology group that I started , where we watch .

Speaker 1 42:00

No I do who ?

Speaker 2 42:01

and then I also have one of the golden girls too .

Speaker 1 42:04

All the golden girls , big golden girls fan .

Speaker 2 42:07

Yes , if you go to first unitarian Society in Madison , we do it the third Tuesday of the month . Um , we watch an episode and have a discussion . Amazing with the it it . It's a lot fun and last night we had cheesecake . Oh wait , that's that's that's the way to do it , yeah yeah , someone was like can I bring cheesecake ?

Speaker 1 42:25

and like yeah , makes sense .

Speaker 2 42:29

So with dr who though you know he's this time lord , he can travel through time and space , and there are situations that he can go to , and if it doesn't work out , he can go back into time to fix them . And then there's somewhere , something terrible will happen and one of his companions will say can't you just go back into time ?

Speaker 2 42:50

and he'll say certain things are fixed , certain things have to happen in order for , you know things to move forward . So I think that there are things in life that we can Change our paths or say I'm supposed to , in my life , go off and be a teacher and I'm on that path and then suddenly something happens and I decide that I'm going to take a corporate job instead . Well , that's fine , but probably my next life I'll have to do that Path again . So , you have that free will and hopefully I'm in the path that I need to be on Um .

Speaker 1 43:28

So life is just one big choose your own adventure book where some stuff is written , but then you get to choose what the the next jumping point would be .

Speaker 2 43:36

Yeah , yeah , I like that . Those were . Folks are amazing , as I love them , oh yeah except I would always cheat and I would .

Speaker 1 43:44

I'd be like all right , go to page 27 . You like go , like , don't , don't like that one , don't like that one , come back .

Speaker 2 43:49

Yeah , I'm someone who reads the last page of a book before I said yeah .

Speaker 1 43:54

Sometimes you just got to know what's gonna happen . I'm trying to think there was a question I was just gonna ask . You lost my train of thought . Um Shoot , well , I guess I . I do have another question I can go to . So in a lot of Religions there is a Believe or something else is gonna happen . It's not always like as dramatic as christianity says if you don't believe you're going to hell , like in Judaism . If you don't believe , then you don't believe there's no hell , but like there's something better that you could get to . Is there anything like that in your religion where it's if you don't believe , then this thing could happen to you ? Or if you believe , you are elevated to a higher level of Enlightenment or whatever it is . What's like the ? Is there a sticker carrot that is this happening ?

Speaker 2 44:43

You know I can't speak for other pagan traditions , but in my own you don't believe , you don't . If you're not , if this isn't the path that you know , if you're searching for god there's different ways up the mountain to meet god . If this path isn't the one that is Working for you and that , in the chanting , isn't how you feel to get there , you feel like you need to do it in a different way , then that's fine . I think we're all reincarnated , regardless . But I don't think . But none is a punishment , it's purely a learning experience .

Speaker 2 45:16

Sure but the question reminds me of a time when I was in college and I was taking a Hebrew Bible class and this girl in the class really had a hard time with me being pagan and she kept slipping these little books in my backpack when I wasn't looking . So I'd get back home and they'd be these books about how I was going to hell and I just recycle , recycle Right and then at the end of the class , end of the semester , I'm taking my final exam .

Speaker 2 45:49

She finishes before me because we sat at the same table . She slams down this folder filled with all of this information , incorrectly , about witchcraft and again . I'm going to hell and I'm thinking , oh my gosh , I'm lady , I'm trying to take a final exam here . You know , I'm trying to convert me in the middle of this exam .

Speaker 1 46:09

Right .

Speaker 2 46:09

So I just dismissed it . And then afterward she was waiting for me and she said I'm just so worried about your soul , I'm just so worried . And I'm not saying I'm proud of this moment , but I was trying to make a point and I said well , I'm just worried for yours because I feel like you're going to be reincarnated . And she goes well , I don't believe in that . You're going to hell . And I said I don't believe in hell . You're going to be reincarnated . And she said well , god doesn't want you to do that . And I said ugh , you're making the goddess mad right now . She doesn't like you doing this right now . And I was just trying to make the point that you know , what I'm saying means nothing to you . Just what you're saying means nothing to me .

Speaker 2 46:51

Telling me , I'm going to go to hell . You know what does that mean ? Anything . Just if I go up to someone who believes in hell and I say you're going to be reincarnated , the goddess has said so , you're going to dismiss me . She didn't get what I was trying to do , but her friends came up to me after and they said we get it now and we're sorry , and we're not going to do this again to you . And I was like thank you , so at least they got that . Because this one said I didn't realize that your beliefs were that strong and they're as strong as mine and nothing I say to you is going to change , just like nothing you say to me is going to change . And I was like yes , that's exactly the point I'm trying to make here .

Speaker 1 47:32

Yeah , yeah , that's a really good point of just for as much as you care about your thing , I care that much about my thing , or don't care about your thing , you don't care about my thing by service . That's a really good story . I think the last question I have for you is well , so usually my wife says we know what didn't I ask , that you wanted to share , that we didn't talk about . So I want to ask you that . And also , what would you leave somebody ? Like , if you were able to have a couple of minutes with somebody and tell them about Wicca , what were the things that you would want them to take away ? So the two questions there .

Speaker 2 48:12

Oh gosh , I just again probably all that you've heard of the faith throughout out the window . Make sure that you're getting your information from reputable sources . You know Circlesycstoryorg is a great one . You're getting information from a pagan resource center that I have full trust in , as well as thousands of other people , because there's a lot of misinformation out there , and it's not just Hollywood . There's other people putting books out that I'm like but we're just regular people , we're just regular . I can't tell you how many times I have gone to Circle and I see people and I'm like they look like it's somebody at the church I go to . Yeah .

Speaker 2 48:57

Like we're just regular people . Could you run across somebody in a full druid robe ? Absolutely . Could you run into somebody with horns on their head ? Absolutely . But a lot of times it's just somebody wearing some lands and clothes , with a robe , and we're just . We pray . We believe in a higher being . That higher being is in all that dwells around us . So we need to be respectful of each other and of our environments , respectful of other races and cultures , the LGBTQ plus community . We're just like regular people .

Speaker 1 49:38

Yeah .

Speaker 2 49:38

I want to make it sound like we're super exciting , but it's . You know , if I'm going to do a spell , I'm going to light a candle , meditate , maybe light some incense and I'm going to pray , but I'm not , like you know , stirring my cold during with frog legs or anything , Right ? You know if there are people who are doing it .

Speaker 2 49:56

we're fine , but I that's you know , my mom will say things and I'm like that was a spell , mom . I think there's a lot of times people are doing spells and they don't realize that they are .

Speaker 1 50:05

So it's you know , that's so interesting .

Speaker 1 50:09

It's just so fascinating to learn about something that , like I just don't . I have zero connection or like just no frame of reference to know about this stuff . So I appreciate you sharing it because I think it is important . You know , just like that story you talked about with the people that were in your class , about just learning what else is going on . You don't have to buy into it or go home and , you know , renounce what you're currently believing , but I just think it's really cool and I appreciate you being so open . Oh well , I appreciate it .

Speaker 2 50:40

So much , just to give me a voice to do this , and that you have interest in it , that you are on board , so I appreciate it .

Speaker 1 50:49

Yeah , I so appreciate it and just obviously being so respectful and listening to me because so many times there are people who are .

Speaker 2 50:59

They say to me you know great people and they're say they're open-minded , and then I start talking you know , okay , you want to hear what I believe , and then you just see this kind of known out or they're just like oh , I'm going to be like . Oh , I'm going to be like oh , there are so many people out there . They're just like oh , or an eye roll , and I appreciate that you didn't do that .

Speaker 1 51:18

You were very respectful . No , it's , yep , you're very welcome . I come from a background where my dad was a pastor and I've grown out of just religion in general , and so it all just sounds fantastical to me . There's no , there's nothing like if you were described Catholicism to me , having never heard about it before . It would sound ridiculous . You know , and that's what I've come to realize as an adult is , it doesn't matter like it's , as long as what you've described is way better than a lot of what you hear about other religions in terms of just the acceptance part . So I think it was awesome .

Retired Minister Discusses Faith and Society

Speaker 2 51:55

Oh , thank you you bet .

Speaker 1 51:56

Well , cool Becky . Thank you so much again for the time . I know this is a time investment , so I appreciate it and wish y'all the best , and hopefully we'll see you around Madison .

Speaker 2 52:06

Yes , thank you so much .

Speaker 1 52:12

Thanks again to Becky for coming on . I really enjoyed that conversation . Next week , we'll be talking with retired minister Phil Haslinger . In that conversation , we talk about where he stands today with his own faith , identity and what the role of religion is moving forward in our society . Thanks again for listening to Finding my Religion . Make sure to follow us on Instagram , facebook , tiktok , youtube , wherever you're doing the socials , and we'll see you next week .