Finding My Religion
We're a podcast that asks the question, "What do you believe?" We talk with people to find out how they grew up, what they think about today, and where they think they'll be in the future. Faith, religion, and spirituality are all such personal journeys. We're honored to be able to tell people's stories, no matter the belief.
Finding My Religion
Rida Ali: "Tolerance"
Rida, a senior from the University of Wisconsin and an Interfaith Fellow, talks about growing up in the Muslim faith. As a practicing Muslim originally from India, she offers a unique perspective on the complex tapestry of her homeland's religious and cultural diversity. Her stories of personal faith, daily practices, and the nuanced challenges that religious minorities face speak to an experience far more intricate than the stereotypes often seen in media. Rida's journey from India to the U.S. serves as a powerful backdrop to our exploration of identity, belonging, and the resilience of the human spirit in the face of adversity.
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Welcome to Finding my Religion. My name is Miles Stelps. I was able to get in touch with the Center for Interfaith Dialogue Program at the University of Wisconsin and they allowed me to talk with some of their interfaith fellows that are currently going through their program. The program's charter is really, really cool. Their goal is to provide their fellows, and eventually, some of the other students, with the knowledge and skills to basically overcome some of the barriers of religious differences that exist in our world. It's incredibly enlightening to talk with some of these people because they're so much smarter than me and they're so much younger, but the passion that they have for what they believe and also for just discourse and what other people believe is something that I think we all can learn from, especially with some of the things that are going on across the world. Alright, we are back. I have another one of the UW Interfaith Fellows joining me today. I'm super pumped to talk with her. Rida, how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing good. How about you?
Speaker 1:I'm doing well. I'm doing well. Thanks for taking time to do this and for talking about religion on a what is it a Tuesday night? So I guess, first off, I don't know anything about you. This is the first time we're talking, so you said that before we start recording that you're a senior at UW this year. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, this is my last year at UW and I will be graduating with a degree in political science and international studies, with minors in integrated liberal studies and political economy, philosophy and politics. So it's not full, but we're getting there.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Good for you. You must be smart. I remember when I was going to college I had just the one major and it almost didn't work out for me. So good on you for expanding. Where are you from originally, like, are you from Wisconsin, or are you from out of state?
Speaker 2:So I am from a Milwaukee area, Wisconsin, but I was born in India and I moved to the States when I was seven years old.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, that's awesome. I definitely want to talk about that. Well cool. So I always start this thing pretty pretty easy question for some what's your faith and what's your religion at this point in your life?
Speaker 2:So I am Muslim, I've always been Muslim, and my family are pretty practicing Muslims. So, yeah, we do have this distinguishing factor in the community where you're like a cultural Muslim or a practicing Muslim or just like quote unquote name Muslim. So I would say that we are practicing Muslims, which just means that it affects our day to day life and we like incorporate it daily, like we do the five daily prayers, and it's like a very significant aspect of our life in terms of decision making and, yeah, just it's more of a lifestyle, rather than, oh, I only practice it on X day or just one special holidays when I'm going to be Muslim. So it is, yeah, I would say it's a pretty big part of my family and us life. So, yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Did your parents also grow up in the Muslim faith, or was it something?
Speaker 2:that they joined. Yeah, so my family has been Muslim for a little bit, as far back as I can remember, and just what I've been taught about our lineage and family tree. I am also Indian, so that's a, I guess, intersectionality that a lot of people don't really consider. Like, when people do think about Muslims, they just think about maybe like the Middle East or like Pakistan, but, like to contextualize it a bit, india does have like a significant population of Muslims and although we are a minority, we are like the biggest minority in India and, for example, the entire population of Pakistan is about 200 million total, but that is the same amount of Muslims that are in India.
Speaker 2:So just to contextualize like there's also like about 200 million Muslims in India, so it's not very like you don't really feel like a minority there, although in recent years there has been a lot of right wing governments that have been cracking down on minorities, including Muslims, and that. So, yeah, I like to tell people like I never felt much like a minority until, like, like until I came to America and people were telling me, oh, like it must have been hard to be a Muslim in India, or like being an Indian Muslim. I'm like, oh, I don't know, like it's pretty normal, like it's not like we're, I don't know. I guess it's just in a nutshell, where we don't feel as much of a minority in the homeland, I suppose, yeah, people make it out to be.
Speaker 1:That's all it makes sense. Yeah, yeah, it is interesting. I mean I always tell people like I'm a dumb person, I'm trying to be more cultured in life and it like you. Just whenever you hear about India, the first religion that pops into my head is is Hindu. I assume that that is. I haven't done any research on that, but I assume that's the largest religion in the country.
Speaker 2:Yes, it is a majority. However, india has a lot of diversity and it is like it has a lot of significant majority, a majority, significant amount of Christians and Jainism and Sikhism and overall there's a lot of ethnicities within India itself. So, for example, if I just visit the state next door to where I'm originally from, like, I will also get a culture shock because I don't know their language, I don't know their customs and their culture is completely different. Their religion is completely different. So there's over there's hundreds of languages spoken in India and there's no national language. So, in that sense, like, india is very multicultural in itself. So, like what we think about when we, when we picture India is not, it's very surface level and within Indians themselves, there's a lot of diversity and a lot of different religions and cultures that we ourselves, like, continue to learn about as we coexist with everyone. So it's it's it's pretty interesting growing up with this context in mind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean so it sounds like India is very you said it's culturally diverse. Is it feel like it's more accepting of differences, like difference in faith or politics or whatever it might be?
Speaker 2:I'd like to say it is because that's just the community I've grown up in, where. So I'm originally from the state of Maharashtra, which is where Mumbai is, which is one of the biggest cities in India, and so just in my personal experience, I would say, yes, it's very like accepting, it's very tolerant, like in my own like hometown, there's like a Hindu temple right across the mosque and you can hear both like in Islam, there's five daily prayers and there's a call to prayer that's often broadcasted in Muslim areas around the world, so you can hear that five times a day in my city and you could also hear the Hindu prayers and ceremonies that happen.
Speaker 2:So it's like, and no one like, no one hates on each other or no one is protesting that, as you might expect, it's pretty normalized and also for me, like my neighbors were Hindu and they would have certain ceremonies that required me to join in, just like as a participant. And although I don't believe in that faith, my family always like encouraged me to go and take part of it, just to respect it, just because they like needed, like me, to be there to complete their custom. So, although I would have restrictions, like oh, I will not be able to do a certain action because that's like very against religion. Like, for example, I'm not going to pray to a certain statue of a God that you believe in, but if you need me to just be present and take part in something or eat something, then like my parents sent me to that and I participated in those other faiths like that. So, in my personal experience, like, growing up as an Indian Muslim was pretty like it made me pretty sensitive to other cultures and religions and like it normalized coexistence in that sense. But I do know I also know that India within itself is also has a lot of racism towards one another and we do have a lot of culture clashes, but I'd like to think that we are doing better than most other multicultural societies, just because that's been the norm in our history for centuries, and a lot of the problems that are arising now regarding, like, I think, divisions and religious divisions, has been due to British colonization. So I would like to point that out. So, like a lot, of, a lot of the current political issues and then social divisions do stem from problems and racist legacies that the British left behind. So, like a quirky little phrase that, like a lot of Indians use is like the British left, but they left their mentality behind. So that's seen in a lot of like a lot of aspects in Indian culture now where it's because of like, the British norm that was set. Like another, like a different example might be like colorism, like being white as a beauty standard, and just that's very normalized and that was, of course, brought in by British. And then another similar example is we Indians are not in this.
Speaker 2:In South Asia more broadly, we have a third gender that has existed for centuries and they're called hijra in India. And these people so they I don't want to categorize them into under one label, but they are transgender and some of most of them are transgender, but they do identify as other, as other gender identities as well, and so these people were very accepted in South Asia prior to colonization, including within religious communities, including Islam and Hinduism, which is surprising, because I suppose most people would think that religions would bar anything other than the binary gender, like man, woman labels. But these people were pretty important. They played really important parts in society prior to colonization and they were respected. However, after colonization, they were ostracized and marginalized and discriminated against, and then so the religious communities that once supported these people, this group of people, they turned against them, and so so the issues that, like the country in South Asia is more broadly facing right now. I don't want to blame everything on colonization, but a lot of it does stem from colonization and, yeah, I think that's just important to highlight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, that's, that's super important. I mean, there's, there's like a couple of things happen. There's, there's the before and after of colonization, but then within, like all of the bad stuff that happens after and during colonization, comes this like beauty of having a mosque and a Hindu temple across the street from each other and like hearing each other's music.
Speaker 1:So there's, there's beauty in the chaos almost, but it's, yeah, I mean I'm glad that you mentioned that, because I I feel like people forget that India was like a British property for a long, long time and there's some still, obviously, some still affects to that. So for for you, I mean so you said you came over when you were seven to the States yes, was it hard Like, was it a shocker, coming to a completely different country at such a young age.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I joined elementary school here at the start of second grade, so, and I didn't know English. Definitely bad things without another barrier, I suppose, and, and I guess that is in the 2000s, so it's the post 9, 11 arrow, and Iraq war is still going on. So I think that's when I came here I became more aware of my Muslim identity, because before it was just like like a norm, like a norm for me, and I was just like and I felt like society accepted me, even though it's in India where I'm supposed to be a minority. I felt like I grew up in a diverse environment, but here, which is in America, which is also diverse, it's a very different dynamic where your identity kind of becomes the first thing people see here, rather than like any other part of you Like.
Speaker 2:So it's like and just like the typical, typical question like where are you from? Or like where are you really from? And and like what's like? What's your religion? Why don't you do this? Like are you a terrorist? Like it's just like those those things are kind of like the first things people start to think about when they meet you. I think in America especially and I don't I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, it's just a reality which I think is necessary for like what America is. But I think it was a hard just like, like as a kid, like you don't really think about these things more deeply, but I think for me I was kind of forced to reflect on it and I think that's when I actually like always hid the fact that I was Muslim, like I never want to talk about it, like I never. If someone asked me directly, I just I just like didn't answer it, I just like talked about something else, or yeah, I just maybe sometimes I even lied.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I said I was Christian because I just like yeah, that just felt, like I just felt more comfortable saying that and I didn't feel that bad because so in Islam, christianity and Judaism are are seen as earlier versions of Islam.
Speaker 2:So I was like it's close enough, it's fine. Like I'm not like going to get in trouble if, like, my mom finds out or something or like, or if, like, god sees this so like lying about what religion I am. But, yeah, I think, just as a kid like I like I learned quickly to like it's a thing that I shouldn't talk about and it's the thing that's like possibly gonna put me in uncomfortable or even unsafe situations. If people are like are angry about what they're seeing in the news or like if they want to vent out losing loved ones in like Afghanistan, like on me, like I understand the frustration of what it's like. You know it's not fair on anyone and yeah, and it's like obviously so many stereotypes and misconceptions and it's not even the kids fault, because their families are affected by it too, and there are there and there are adults telling them what to believe in.
Speaker 1:So as a kid.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as a kid it was just like having to deal with that. I guess was a bit hard, but I think I've grown a lot from then and I've become more like knowledgeable and more comfortable in my PhD. So I would say it's been a fairly positive experience since then. So yeah, let's.
Speaker 1:that's good to hear. I mean, it's like I can't even imagine growing up in that time Like, first of all, as an immigrant from another country, not even really know the language as a kid, because all is like I remember as a kid, like all I want to do is fit in right, like all you want to do is what everybody else is doing. And if I'm feeling that way, somebody that looks like me and sounds like me and has grown up in the states like, as you know, an English speaking person how much more amplified is that when you are coming from a different country, from a religion and people there's like a lot of you know, hatred coming towards people that believe the same things that you believe.
Speaker 2:like I can't imagine going through that as a little kid and like the way that you even describe that is amazing.
Speaker 1:I don't mean survive like, like life or death, but just survive and be as interested in your culture as you are right now, and want to know more about other cultures. I guess that's. That's awesome. Yeah, so did you. When you were growing up, did you have a community of other people that were part of Islam, or was it just you and your family that you know? We're in Milwaukee and that was it.
Speaker 2:So, although Milwaukee does have like a significant like Muslim, they see community in the suburb that I grew up in which is not like the main Milwaukee area. It was pretty non diverse. So basically I was the only Muslim I knew and my family growing up and I actually didn't really have like a Muslim community until I got to college, which is three years ago in 2020. So, and it's only in college where I like became more interested and more comfortable sharing my identity just because I saw that other people were comfortable doing that and like I was like, oh wait, it's okay to be Muslim. Like what? So? Yeah, growing up I didn't know anyone else who was Muslim, which was pretty isolating and alienating.
Speaker 2:Now that I think about it and it didn't have to be I think it's just because, as I explained, like just because I was made to feel like it was wrong or I can't like talk about it with anyone.
Speaker 2:I think just having to hide that part growing up and not having anyone else to relate to or have the same experiences as me or even the same beliefs as me, I think it all like played into one another and like increased that isolation.
Speaker 2:I think after I started college and I met other Muslims in the community and I like learned about how to use my identity as, like, a good thing, something that can benefit the community and also teach others about different fates or how we're all similar in one way or another, or how there are so many intersectionalities and commonalities between us. I think doing that has, like, not only helped me become more comfortable in my identity, but also showcased that, like, faith is actually an important part of society. Like, even though we are in a secular country that stresses separation, you can't separate that from the person, and that person is going to be involved in your communities. They're going to be your teachers, they're going to be, you know, your doctors, and that's going to shape their outlook and morals on life. It's important to know what they believe in and how that affects their life in that way.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, that's well stated. You know, it's interesting. My college roommate for us who came on this podcast last year also Muslim and he had a similar experience to you where I think that it was his religion was really tied up in his family. Really, you know they would follow all of the customs that I think similar to you guys I forget how you described it a practicing Muslim, I think he would describe himself as that.
Speaker 1:But when he came to college, like it was an opportunity for him to see, like, oh, there is other people that are like me and believe the same thing. So it's interesting that that dynamic and I wonder if that is something that isn't unique to Muslims like was something that a lot of the people that you met when you got to college like, was that their experience as well of like not really having a community and now being in school, being able to have that community?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So as part of my fellowship, which is the Center for Interfaith Dialogue that's at UW, this year I met a fellow Catholic student who felt that way, which I was surprised by because I was like wait, but you're like the mainstream.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I'm not for your Christian, but it was really interesting because he described his experience as also similar, like isolating because his family. He comes from an interfaith family where I think one parent is yeah, it is James.
Speaker 1:James came on this podcast, so this is awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I heard yeah, so James was describing like how his one parent is practicing or and another parent Like was really hostile towards Catholic and the Catholic faith and many other religions, and it was interesting to see like his experience and how he's found Catholicism to be so ostracized and in like the media and just pop culture as a whole.
Speaker 2:Like and that gave me like a very interesting perspective.
Speaker 2:Like I never thought about it like that just because I was like, oh, christianity, it's like everyone loves Christianity, everybody's fine.
Speaker 2:But like the Catholic perspective was interesting in that like people are always quick to like quick to shun Catholicism as oh it's, they don't believe in science or, you know, they're so harsh on like LGBTQ community or they're so like unaccepting, whereas like these things like if you actually study Catholicism or like separate that from like certain like leaders or certain like like institutions that aren't fundamentally like I guess they shouldn't reflect the entire faith as a whole, like then then you find out like, oh, like Catholicism is also pretty, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Like it's pretty accepting and it's not as it's not as like harsh or strict or unaccepting as people make it out to be, and it's also interesting how pop culture, especially, I guess, in Western society has normalized kind of being anti Catholic in a sense, or just like it's. So it's so easy to find examples of like mockery of it of the religion and just like their Halloween costumes that are like nuns or priests and it's like but if the same thing was, was done for Islam or like any other religion, that would have been shut down very quickly.
Speaker 2:So it's just like the hypocrisy of, like what religions we're deeming to be like respected, oh and oh, we don't mess with that faith in the sense. But then some other religions, like Christianity or Catholicism in this case, like people, are okay with you know, disrespecting it in certain ways. So that's just interesting and I and I didn't know like, and I guess I just didn't realize that that that is also isolating that religion and its followers in that way. So that's yeah it's pretty sad to you know. Think about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's an interesting point. I do think that is. Yeah, I don't know, I just do on that one, that's an interesting point. I don't think I've really thought about it in that context before. So for you, growing up, obviously your faith and your religion were culturally a huge part of your life was. Was the faith part of it as big like? Did you? Do you remember like questioning anything growing up or like when you went to high school? Or was it just something that you did, that your family did and that that was cool? But you know, who knows if you really bought in?
Speaker 2:I think for me, my family I would like to say that my family is pretty chill.
Speaker 2:I always admired that.
Speaker 2:I bought my family growing up, because now, reflecting back on it and now that I have Muslim friends, I know that in a lot of cultures and a lot of Islamic households it's very repressive and it's very strict to the point where some of my Muslim friends have become detached from their faith because of the rules that were enforced on them and oh, you can't go out, oh, you can't drink, you can't wear this, like all of that.
Speaker 2:It's because they were so like it was imposed on them in such a hard way and without any explanation or without any kindness, just basic decency and just basic love, where now they're kind of like anti those customs or those rules of Islam or culture. So I think for me my experience has been good, where I think my family taught me like they taught me, the like, the sins or the rules, in a way that made sense to me. It was like oh, you can't drink alcohol because that tamper is with your mental clarity. And then, but you need mental clarity to be able to pray and we need to pray five times a day. So if you're drunk, then you can't pray.
Speaker 1:So as I drink a beer in front of you you're good, no worries.
Speaker 2:But like, in that sense, like it made sense, I was like, oh, I do value prayer. It's like it clears my mind, it like it's like the stress reliever. It helps me like just deal with my life and my problems, and it's one of the five pillars of Islam. So it's like I'm not going to give up praying just because I want to like drink, like I don't even like care for that, I'm not that interested in it to begin with. So in that sense, I think, like my family taught Islam to me in a very logical way and where I could ask questions without feeling like I would be judged, or like without feeling stupid in that way.
Speaker 2:Or without feeling like I was doing something wrong, like also, like I'm supposed to wear the hijab, like as a woman, and I don't because simple answers I just don't feel comfortable yet doing that and I don't make any excuse about it. There is also a cultural nuance to that, because in a lot of South Asian societies that are Muslim, women don't tend to wear the hijab until they're married. I think it's just like that cultural. It's not really like written anywhere, but that's what I've noticed and have come to the conclusion of. It's like. It's more of like oh, you should do it because it's like you're supposed to, but it's like, oh, like do it when you're like an actual adult. Or like I see, like a lot of members in my own family, like they started wearing the hijab after they had some sort of like great religious awakening or like great epiphany about life and they're so in tune with their religious and they're like, oh my gosh, why wasn't I wearing the hijab earlier? I should wear it now.
Speaker 2:But it's like now they're like 30 or 35, you know, and so it's just like that sense has been instilled in a lot of like South Asian societies. In itself, like compared to like the Arab Muslims or the Indonesians or the Malaysians, like hijab is very prevalent in their in like in their youth as well, like in young women, teenagers, girls, because that's just like they've combined religion and culture in that way. But in South Asia it's different, where it's more, I guess, it's instilled, it's like delayed, it's like you become an adult and you come to that own conclusion, whereas it's not like your family is like enforcing it on you. So that can be a good thing and that could also be a bad thing. So I'm not sure how I feel about that, but right now, like especially in right now, right now, because of the war in Palestine and Israel and rise of the alphobia and all that, even though I was considering, oh, maybe I should wear the hijab suit, just because I just feel ready, now I'm like okay, nevermind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't want to.
Speaker 2:I don't want to do this because I don't want to, and it's like and I felt like I was going back to like my childhood days where I don't want to tell anyone I'm Muslim and wearing the hijab, like, obviously, that you're representing Islam in that way. So yeah, just like in the current scenario again, the current state of the world, just don't feel like comfortable or safe doing that and like being so public about the Muslim now. So yeah, it's.
Speaker 1:It's like that's heartbreaking to hear that you can't do the things that you might want to do because of fear of retribution. Essentially was what it comes down to you For you, you mentioned that your family was very chill, as you put it, which I love, but you had questions and they would. They would. They would answer them for you. What were some of the biggest questions about being a Muslim that you had growing up or even today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was like it was so. In Ramadan, we have to fast right from sunrise to sunset, which means like, upstanding from food and water the whole day, not even a drop, not even anything. And I remember like, like I'm hungry, like I'm at school and like, yeah, I'm like.
Speaker 2:and, of course, like, when Ramadan starts, every class needs to host their pizza party, their ice cream party, like every, every time that would happen and it's like like, why do I have to do this? Like it doesn't make sense, like, and initially, I think like a lot of like Muslim kids grew up saying oh, like to other people who'd asked them like, why are they fasting? I think a lot of Muslim people grew up like saying that, oh, it's because we're like trying to relate to poor people and we're like putting ourselves in their shoes by not eating. But like, that's like not true, right.
Speaker 2:That's just like, like I don't know, I don't know what like impoverished person in the world knows. They're going to eat, they're going to go, they're going to go to sleep with the full belly or so I don't know. I guess that was just like an easy explanation, as like a kid, but like when I asked my family the same question, like I don't get why we have to fast, Like I'm hungry, like like I'm tired and shim, like I'm sleepy, Like then I have to do homework and take tests and all that Then, like it sit me down and they'd explain to me oh, it's because this is the month where you are trying to improve yourself as a person, like not just a Muslim, but you're trying to abstain from bad habits and abstain from habits that not only have a negative effect on you but the world. So like fasting is kind of symbolic in that sense, Like you are not only abstaining from food and water, but then it translates into abstaining from like backbiting, or abstaining from like poor language, or abstaining from and now I can't think of any sin Like just overall bad habits, and it's kind of a metaphor that way.
Speaker 2:But there's also, like I guess, scientific facts about just like how, like you don't have that much. I guess it's like you just don't have energy to do these things. Or like mentally, like after you fast for a couple of days, you gain more mental clarity and focus. So, even like as a student, like that's like like the first few days are hard, like you when you're like having your caffeine cat crash and stuff. But then afterwards, after like your body adjusts to it, you actually do feel like more energetic and you feel more mobile and you feel more like rested. And obviously these are like very dependent on like what you break your fast with and just how you're like and if you're engaging with the fast properly, like, of course, like if you're breaking your fast with like 10 energy drinks and like fast food, like obviously I doubt that you're going to feel good the next day you're fasting.
Speaker 2:So it's just like if you, if you like, do what's best for you and do what's like written out to written out for us to do in the way it's supposed to, then it should benefit you in the long run. And so the point of that is just to say like I feel like my family always explained things to me in a very like, in a way that made sense, like, given my age and just given, like, like the realities, like they were, like yeah, I know that. Like, like it was validating. Like they didn't say, oh, get over it. Like there's there's there's people in like X place that are experiencing so much worse. Like, like, okay, that just makes me feel bad now. Like it doesn't.
Speaker 1:It doesn't only my hungry.
Speaker 2:So not, not only am I hungry now, I'm just like sad that like I'm hungry and like this person somewhere else in the world doesn't have food period.
Speaker 2:Like so like it. Just the way they always explain things to me made sense and like they never like made me feel bad about it. And they always and I think the goal of that was like so I'm not, so I don't think my religion is like illogical, or like out to get me or just like out to take all the fun away from life Like it's always framed in a way that this is beneficial for like I got. Like. I also always use the example like oh, I want to do drugs, like I really do.
Speaker 2:Yeah like, like I'd like to try it but I'm not going to because, one, that's not a lot of my religion and two, I know that's bad for me, like in all, like education wise, like we're in grid, instilled on you, instilled enough, like this is so bad for you don't even try it. It's addictive and you know, like it's only a temporary high and it's only temporary pleasure, and then after that it's like so many bad things happen physically, mentally. So it's like I think my family always framed religion in that sense where they recognized the appeal of certain things, but then they also recognize, oh, but in the long run, this is what's going to benefit you and this is going to, this is how you'll be a good person, or this is how you can make the best use of your life that way. So I always appreciated that and I think that's really helped me become more comfortable in my beliefs growing up.
Speaker 1:And now, yeah, that's awesome, that's really cool. You talking about fasting remind me of the story. So my college roommate for us I think I told this on his episode but he was going through fast and we had these like pre-made meals that you could get from like wherever you got food on campus or whatever. And so he came home from the gym he had just like played basketball. He had his food ready to go. We were about to watch a show together and he like takes one bite and he just goes, or before he bites it, he goes Miles what's what meat is that? And he shows me that looks like pork and he goes, oh my God, and he just takes it and throws it in the garbage and walks out the room. I was like I've never felt so bad for a guy my entire life, oh my God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we talked a little bit about, like, your experiences with your interfaith classmates. What made you decide to get into the interfaith program. Because I always find it fascinating, because the people I've talked with already are, like, so sound in their own faith, but yet there's still, like, this desire to like connect with other people around you. So what was your experience and why did you get into it?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I got into it last year because my friend, one of my best friends, was part of it the year before and I would always like see her coming back from their meetings and she'd always say what they discussed and what they talked about and how she didn't know that, like in Christianity there was also fasting. Or in Christianity there was also this. Or in Judaism there was also like this rule like kosher food is halal, like I can eat kosher food. Like, and I was so intrigued by all of that, like what she would tell me. And, frankly, like, because I never saw religion on campus, I was, and I only saw it within the Muslim context I was wondering, like, oh, what does this mean for like students who are practicing different faiths? Like what, what? How does faith impact their day to day life? Like for me, like, I always have to think about where I'm going to pray on campus, if, like it's if I need to pray in between classes, or like, where am I going to do that? So that's how it affects my day to day life. So I'm like, so if there are other practicing students on campus, and how does that affect them? Like do they have like mass to attend Like how does that like affect them? Like? Just so, like I just got curious, like from what she would tell me and what she was learning from her interfaith fellows. So after that I got involved last year and it was really interesting to just engage in those dialogues and just like simply just learn about one another and focus on what are our similarities, what are our differences? Like, how can we actually work together and like raise awareness towards something like a broader cause that involves other like rest of the campus community? And but unfortunately or fortunately, I don't know I my experience last year was cut short because I studied abroad the second semester, so I only had one semester of my interfaith experience then. But this year it's different because I'm still part of it.
Speaker 2:But now we are, we took a whole different trajectory with in the sense that we are part of our student affairs and now we are under the vice chancellor. So now, instead of just being dialogue based, we are a lot of we are programming based, where we have to interact a lot with other organizations on campus. Like we're putting on events and we're doing like actual, tangible things. I suppose, rather than just conversing with within the faith community, we're like reaching out to like just everyone now. So that's been really interesting, that's been a really interesting dynamic and we have a physical space now.
Speaker 2:So we're exploring how we're going to, how we're going to use that to make it accessible to everyone who is either curious about religion or either wants to, like start practicing something or just things like that. It's very interesting because now I think we have more flexibility in how we approach faith in the campus and how we mobilize students for certain causes and tie faith or religion into it, or how we even, like bring people in who don't, who are very anti-religion or who are very secular, like because it's still important to recognize that. It's like you can't take this part away from society, Like there's a war happening because of it. There has always been war happening because of it, and just ignoring it doesn't solve the issues. So, yeah, this year is very different in that we have a lot of work to do, but yeah, that's why I'm involved and that's how I've been getting more and more involved as we're transitioning.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think that's awesome. I wish there was something like this. There probably was, I was just too lazy to find it, but it's such a cool program and everybody that I've spoken with so far is just very passionate about that interconnected dialogue that you mentioned and, like the programmatic work that I've heard that you guys are doing is really cool too. What, for you, has been the biggest thing that you've learned? You mentioned a couple of them so far, like Kosher being also Halal, the conversation with the Catholic fellow. What else has been a surprise for you in going through this journey?
Speaker 2:I think a surprise for me has been the fact that non-Abrahamic religions are also very similar to us and not to perpetuate the us-versus-them idea, but I always just like, when I thought of religions, I always immediately just like related to like Christians and Jews, just because they're like, they're like our sibling religions, but like working with like other faiths, like Hinduism and Sikhism although, like I grew up in India which are like they're like literally Indian faiths, like I never I never truly like knew what their beliefs were Like. I just knew their celebrations and their rituals, like I didn't know, like why they were doing that or like what belief is causing them to, you know, have the ceremony where you touch the elders fee or you dress up on the statue of a God and like things like that. Like there was no reason or explanation for that in my experience. So, just like learning that background has been very informative, because then that also just reveals like universal truths that I guess all religions are kind of focusing on and it like it just although it's not correct to say that all religions essentially believe the same things, like I would stir up a lot of controversy there but it's just, it's just interesting that, like even religions that I personally thought were so different and that we have nothing in common. Like Hinduism is a polytheistic religion. That's completely, that's entirely different from Islam.
Speaker 2:Like we are so anti polytheism, but like I learned that like Hinduism essentially like also believes that it's monotheistic, but like all the different gods are just representations of like one being and I don't want to say anything wrong, but that was like a really like my mind was blown after, like someone told me that and or like I learned that about Hinduism, like I was like it's so ingrained to just like categorize it oh, it's polytheistic, there's like a million gods, like literally there's like a million God, but like the view that, like a lot of Hindus believe that it's actually monotheistic and there's just like one being, but it's just in like several manifestations. Like that was really interesting. And so it's just like when you talk to people who are very different, you actually find out like there's like you might believe the same thing, but just like very different ways, and I think that's really important to focus on, and it's like very important to actually engage in those conversations rather than just like, oh, I'm just going to talk to my Christian and Jew buddies, just because, like we have the same God, like we're cool, like you can like go and like pray to your like several gods, like that's like so unproductive and that's just not how society functions. So I think it's really important to actually find out what everyone believes in and find out, like what the similarities and differences are, because you'll be surprised what you'll learn and like what misconceptions you might have had that you didn't even know and or that you believe was a fact.
Speaker 2:Like I was so certain I was like I'm literally Indian. Like you can't tell me that Hinduism is a monotheistic religion. Like I can name five gods right now and like, but it's like, yeah, it's like the view that it's monotheistic. Like I just completely did not think of it like that or I didn't even give that thought a chance, but so it's so important to actually like engage in those conversations and find those things out.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's awesome, it's, it's almost like so it feels like today, especially in the age of Twitter and people arguing online into the ether, you guys are more interested in the nuance, that is like the underlying tone in religion and those conversations. I just think it is awesome. It's so cool. What, what's next for like for you? And actually let me ask you a different question. So we talked a lot about the just the, the hatred that can happen sometimes when it comes to to religion, especially with Muslims, since 911 and probably even before that. But now that we have another global conflict going on, there's probably still a lot of misinformation about, like, what it means to be Jewish, what it means to be a Muslim. So for you, like what would you want to tell someone if they're like? I don't even know what it? What being a Muslim means? Like what would you tell that person? What does that mean to you?
Speaker 2:I think, and the context of the violence that's happening. I think it's important to it's always important to assess any situation within its historical context. So, if you're labeling something as terrorism, like Really take a look at what, what, who, who you're labeling that as like, what is it about them? Like or their beliefs that is like violent to you? Like yeah, is one one entities, actions representing like over a billion people, like also like this is like a hard note, but I like recently learned that like a child was murdered in Chicago because he's like Palestinian Muslim and his landlord was just racist. So like it's like, who are you labeling as a racist, like a child, or not racist, as a terrorist, a child and like an innocent family that's so removed from the conflict?
Speaker 2:Or it's just like Like just actually like sit down and learn about the religion and what it stands for and what are his beliefs, and don't just make assumptions based on what like you see on media, because it's so easy to just like look at a tweet and just say oh, and or just generalized like oh, this group did this, okay, so now they're representing almost. Like it's like the same thing that happened post 911 and obviously like Our leadership, like in Congress and whatnot. It doesn't help if they like Go along with everything. They also create inflammatory remarks because, like, none of what they say is like fact, like and we've seen this again and again with our leadership, and it's unfortunate because we should be able to turn to them as, like, a credible source, what like maybe this is political, but like no you're like my grandpa was like over 80 years old, was president.
Speaker 2:I will be like surprised, like I would not be comfortable with my grandpa as President is.
Speaker 1:this is like Like you're saying wait, you're saying that too many old white men have been running this country for too long. Is that we're saying? I mean, I'm giving you a hard time.
Speaker 2:No, but yeah, it's just like really assess, like who we're believing and like we're getting information from, like really try to be a free thinker and like don't be a sheep. Yeah like not to sound like Kanye, but Like it's really important to. It's just really important to make your own judgments based on like, like proper information and not just like one side and views on things, and just yeah, like yeah, specifically to the faith of, of Islam.
Speaker 1:Like what would you want somebody to know about your faith directly?
Speaker 2:You know, islam is very selfless. Like an Islam doesn't instigate violence. If there is violence and there has been violence, that is, there are certain types of violence that is justified in Islam, but it's in very specific scenarios where it's like Because it was self defense or it was because, like there are, like there's an intensive like laws and a whole legal, whole legal outline on like justice and Islam. So it's, but it's never like for perpetrating violence.
Speaker 2:Islam is actually just very selfless. You're like you're constantly supposed to be sacrificing like personal interests and personal pleasure for, like, the greater good, like like going back to the previous point like I can't do this, like I can't smell or not yeah, I can't like do drugs, like I can't drink alcohol, and obviously those things are probably fun. I wouldn't know, because I guess that's bad for me, but it's like like I do believe that it's benefiting me not to engage in XYZ and it's like, sure, I'm sacrificing something, but it's like me being selfless. It's me being selfless not only for myself, but also just in in a larger context, like being selfless for my family to, you know, like sacrificing something so Like my brother can get a better like, a better opportunity, like Islam is all about like like taking care of yourself and your society.
Speaker 2:You're never removed from either, or it's not just your individualist but at the cost of everyone else. You're not a collectivist at the cost of yourself. I think there's a very fine balance between the two, in which I like really enjoy about Islam and really value about it. So I think I would want people to know that Islam is never about just like perpetrating violence or like forcing your beliefs on to others. It's about just doing what's best for yourself and those around you and never has anything to do with forcing someone to share your beliefs or like forcing them to like conform. It's just like. It's all about coexistence and it's just yeah, that's. I think that's what I would want people to get away from it.
Speaker 1:No, that's great, that's awesome. I mean, it's well say it's hard to be against anything that you just said. So final question for you here this is my wife's question. She always tells me to ask what didn't we talk about that you wanted to talk about, or what question didn't I ask that that I should have?
Speaker 2:I guess for me as a political science major or like someone who always sees like the intersectionalities between governments and just their policies, I suppose any like question on my politics would have been cool for me, just as like a political science. Third, I think I ingrained a lot of that just in the questions itself as it is, but I guess they're not.
Speaker 1:They're not unrelated, right like they're. They're yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I guess anything about politics I would have. I would have just personally enjoyed going into that more. But yeah, that's just. I think that's just because I'm just like very into like World Affairs and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I mean, it's good for you. I also, as a political science major, I used to love that stuff. I get more depressed now than anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I've had it the same way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's hard man, like it's. I really had to filter out the news that I get because it's like you just feel hopeless some days. It's also important to talk about it and be in the know, but that that's why I like doing this is because it's there's no like. I think I told you before we got on like there's no debate here. It's it's you, it is what you believe, and I'd much rather this conversation than a political one just because it yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:But I greatly appreciate your time. Your story is awesome, also heartbreaking and also just kind of enlightening as well, just to see where the the future of the world is going to be with with this. Like I know, it's a small group of people, but what you guys are doing is awesome and just learning about each other while also having this like really strong connection to whatever it is equally so I appreciate you, I appreciate your time and I wish you all the best in your senior year here at UW.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much and thanks for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 1:Of course, of course.
Speaker 2:Thank you, bye, bye.
Speaker 1:Next week, we'll be taking a break from the UW interface series and I'm excited to share a few more episodes that I've been holding on to, one of which is a retired minister, another is a Wiccan priestess, and I've got a lot more in store. Thanks again for listening to Finding my Religion. Make sure to follow us on Instagram, facebook, tiktok, youtube, wherever you're doing the socials, and we'll see you next week.
