Finding My Religion
We're a podcast that asks the question, "What do you believe?" We talk with people to find out how they grew up, what they think about today, and where they think they'll be in the future. Faith, religion, and spirituality are all such personal journeys. We're honored to be able to tell people's stories, no matter the belief.
Finding My Religion
Libby Cohen: "Cultural Pieces"
Libby Cohen – a University of Wisconsin senior, talks about her Jewish community. Libby offers a personal lens into how her Jewish heritage shapes her world, from the roots of her Minnesota upbringing to her aspirations in speech pathology. Her dedication echoes through her roles as a teacher at her synagogue and as a participant in Jewish summer camps, providing us a glimpse into the flourishing Jewish culture in Minneapolis and the ways she sustains her spiritual connections amid the vibrancy of campus life.
Our dialogue traverses the diverse landscape of Jewish practice and belief, revealing how personal and familial choices intimately define one's religious path. Drawing from both Libby's narrative and my own experiences within a Conservative Jewish household, we peel back the layers of what it means to belong to the "tribe" of Judaism – a tribe that offers both an embrace of tradition and a support network that defies geographical boundaries. We confront the nuanced challenge of balancing time-honored customs with progressive interpretations, acknowledging the varying degrees of acceptance that frame the Jewish communal experience.
https://linktr.ee/findingmyreligion
https://www.findingmyreligionpod.com
myles@findingmyreligionpod.com
Welcome to Finding my Religion. My name is Miles Stelms. This is the third episode talking with the fellows at the Interfaith Center at UW and, as a reminder, I was able to get in touch with the Center for Interfaith Dialogue Program at the University of Wisconsin and they allowed me to talk with some of their interfaith fellows that are currently going through their program. The program's charter is really really cool. Their goal is to provide their fellows and eventually, some of the other students, with the knowledge and skills to basically overcome some of the barriers of religious differences that exist in our world. It's incredibly enlightening to talk with some of these people because they're so much smarter than me and they're so much younger, but the passion that they have for what they believe, and also for just discourse and what other people believe, is something that I think we all can learn from, especially with some of the things that are going on across the world.
Speaker 1:Alright, we are back. I am talking with another one of the UW Interfaith Fellows. I'm super excited to talk to this person. We've had this in the schedule for quite some time. Libby Cohen I said your last name right, cohen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Talking with Libby Cohen and I'm super excited to talk with you, Libby. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing well. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm doing well. I'm doing well. We're recording this on a Monday, so we always had that like little Monday schlug coming after the weekend, but hopefully this will cheer us right up. So you're a senior at UW currently, correct.
Speaker 2:Yes, I am a senior. I am studying speech pathology and then I'm getting a minor in religious studies.
Speaker 1:Awesome Speech. Pathology School me on what that is.
Speaker 2:Basically assisting people with communication disorders. All about, like language and communication, the way people talk.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. How was? What do you want to do with that degree?
Speaker 2:Hopefully become a speech pathologist. So I'm actually in the process of applying to grad schools right now for next year.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. That's really cool Just trying to serve people that need a little extra help. I love that. So we were talking before we started recording. You are from the great state of Minnesota. In Minneapolis You're a senior. We already covered that Did you is school. What brought you to Wisconsin, I'm assuming, or is your family still in Minnesota?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my family is in Minneapolis. I've grown up a little bit in Wisconsin. I went to summer camp in Wisconsin and my family has a cabin in Wisconsin. So not Madison, but I was familiar with the state a little bit and Minnesota is not too far.
Speaker 1:Awesome. I love Minneapolis. We actually went up there for a boys baseball trip. We saw a couple of baseball games up there and it's just like there's so much going on downtown there's like brunches everywhere. It's also super diverse, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and lots to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, do you miss it at all.
Speaker 2:Yes and no, I do. I mean, it's the place I've grown up and like the only place I've lived, but I love Madison. It's nice being here and they're not super different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, a little bit smaller, not so much of the big city vibe, but still a lot going on. Still plenty to do, for sure. Well, cool. Well, let's jump into the whole reason you're here. So, libby, what's your faith and what's your spirituality at this point in your life?
Speaker 2:I'm Jewish. I have grown up Jewish, both my parents are Jewish. It's one of the biggest parts of my identity. I would say, yeah, I'm proud to be Jewish.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. So you are the second Jewish person that I will be speaking with on this podcast, which I'm super excited, because I grew up in a very non diverse part of the country where pretty much everybody was Christian. We had a couple of Mormon friends as well, but I don't know a lot about the Jewish faith other than what I've seen on, like Marvelous Miss Maisel. If you've ever seen that show, so talk to me about what it was like growing up in a Jewish household. I assume that you went to Jewish school. I think I saw right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so there's three main like sex of Judaism. There's Reform, conservative and Orthodox, and I grew up as a conservative Jew, so kind of that middle tier, so I mean, I guess there are just three different ways to practice Judaism and within each of those tiers there's a lot of different practices in itself that are different, like not every conservative Jew does the same thing, not every Orthodox Jew does the same thing. But yeah, both my parents grew up Jewish. All four of my grandparents are Jewish. It's been a very important part of my upbringing and I went to Jewish elementary school and then I left.
Speaker 2:Jewish elementary school. So I went to middle and high school somewhere else. But yeah, I studied at like it's called Tal Matura, so it's like a after school program for Jewish students who aren't in Jewish school, so I went there. Next, after middle school, I had a Bat Mitzvah. I then taught at my synagogue to students who were learning for their bar in Bat Mitzvah. Basically I took the knowledge I learned when I was preparing and then kind of gave that on to the next group of kids. I grew up at Jewish summer camp as a camper and then a counselor and training and then a staff member and I was on the Jewish education team there at that camp. And yeah, I'm still very involved in my Jewish life here at school, very involved in the Chabad organization, which is just one of the organizations here for Jewish students. Yeah, so being Jewish is definitely a big part of my identity.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. So let's back up to when you were little like. So you're doing Jewish elementary school and I always ask this question, especially like I've asked this question to my Catholic friends who went to Catholic school Was your faith a part of your home life as well, or was it just something that you did at school and then you came home and it was, you know, it wasn't really talked about. Or was it a part of your everyday life at home as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. It was definitely a big part of my life. At home. Every Friday night, my family would celebrate Chabad, which is every week the Sabbath day, and it was very, it was very fun for me to be Jewish Like I would use the word fun to describe that part of my life because one week we'd have Chabad dinner at my house. The next week it would be at my grandparents house and we would switch off every week, and so it would always. Being Jewish was a very like, fun, family oriented, cultural piece of my life. So I always looked forward to getting that time with my grandparents and holidays where my family would get together as a whole. And in Judaism there's a lot of different traditions, a lot of traditions around food and around gathering. So, yeah, a lot of things to look forward to. So I would definitely. I would think it would be very. I thought it was very fun to engage in those things at home and at school because they both were different but very similar at the same time.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Yeah, I feel like anytime you have memories around food and family it can't be a bad thing, right?
Speaker 1:So that's a leg up. So you're hanging out with family weekly. Was this just a cultural time to just, or a time just to celebrate the cultural heritage, or were you guys talking about like stuff that was in Scripture? Like, did you talk about like the act? Because that's so. I think I feel like I'm struggling answering these questions because I'm coming from it like Christians are, so like we don't have the cultural heritage that I feel like the Jewish faith does, because it's more than just we believe this, this and this. It's like family and it's deep seated in history. So, like, did you guys talk about things that were in the Torah, or like what the lesson was at synagogue that day? Like, talk to me about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's also a great question. I, my family, did not do that, so it was more of a time for us to just get together and we actually every week at our Shabbat dinner we would have a go around of what was your favorite thing of the week. So that was something we did every week. That was a nice like carried on through the while the weeks went on. But no, we did not study Torah, do scripture, like you were saying.
Speaker 2:To be honest, we didn't even like pray before, after the meals, which I know some families and conservative Judaism and Orthodox Judaism and Reform Judaism to would do that. But also it was really a time to gather. It was more like the sentiment of doing it and we, well, we would. We would bless like the candles and the, the challah, the bread and the wine, and my grandfather would always leave those prayers for us. So it was very like like I can he's no longer with us but I can still picture him singing that and that was like a very key aspect of like those nights for us was the way he would lead us in those prayers. But we didn't like sit down after and like we were more thankful to each other to be together and thankful for the meal that we all created, rather than, like, think about the historic roots.
Speaker 1:Sure, that makes sense. We're we're most of your friends Jewish growing up like. Did you live in a pretty vast Jewish community, or was it mixed? What was that like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think like pretty much all of my friends growing up were Jewish because I because I was involved in Jewish elementary school and summer camp and my parents really value Judaism and most of their friends were Jewish. I definitely had non-Jewish friends and especially when I went to middle and high school that we, that we, wasn't a Jewish school I had a lot more non-Jewish friends than Jewish friends. But for me, like I've always been able to separate my like camp Jewish friends and my like everyone else, because I just have such a special relationship with those friends, because we share such a similar special bond. So, yes, growing up like my neighborhood wasn't Jewish, but like the kids I would spend time with that weren't in the same exact location I grew up were Jewish, like the people I would surround myself with, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely. Yeah, I feel like that's. That's always an interesting question for me as well, because, like I said I, we just didn't have diversity in in where, where we grew up, Everybody was just Christian or you weren't, and that was it. What about like? So you go to this Jewish elementary school and then you said you went to public school after that.
Speaker 2:No, it was a private school, but it was just had no religion tied to it.
Speaker 1:Was that somewhat of like a shocker for you, like were lessons any different or was the environment any different? After not being in like a one that was focused on an actual faith?
Speaker 2:That's interesting because, looking back, I would think it would be a shock to me. But I don't think it was. I think because I matured, like I grew up as a person just getting older, I think I was not, like it was just what my classes were, that had just changed. But now, looking back, they were definitely different. Like we didn't have a Judaics class where we would like learn about Jewish history, which I did in my elementary school, and like time to pray in elementary school, which I obviously didn't have that in my non-religious middle and high school. So no, it wasn't a shock at the time, it was just like what classes were. But yeah, see it being different.
Speaker 1:Yeah, kids are resilient. Kids are like you go to this school. Now You're like, I guess, I guess that's what it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have an older brother and he actually went to that school. Like he's two years older than me, so he went to the school two years before me and then I don't know. So I guess it was familiar to me because of him, but yeah, I hadn't really thought about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm always interested in that, just because I had friends that went to Catholic school and then you go to public school and it's different Like everything about it is different up to like the class sizes and everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So how many siblings do you have? You said you have a brother.
Speaker 2:Just one older brother. He's two years older.
Speaker 1:Got it. Are you guys pretty tight in terms of like we were like on the same page from a faith perspective and like we're all in?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say so. My brother and I are very close and which I'm very grateful for. He's been abroad for a year teaching English in. Taiwan, and so we haven't talked as much because of 13 hour time difference, but we are definitely talking about, like current events, what's happening in Israel, and like the religion Aspect two, because there's not really Jewish people in Taiwan for him to surround himself with. So, yeah, that's going to change, but, yeah, we're definitely very close.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. So I want to go back to something you talked about before of these three different types I don't know if that's the right word, but different sex, I guess of Judaism, or form, conservative and orthodox. So like we could point to like what orthodox is, like very traditional, like the people that you see in, like New York City with, like the I don't know what the term is yeah yeah, but I mean, can you talk about what the difference is between those three types?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so reform Judaism is the least Like I don't know how to phrase this. I would say, like you were saying, orthodox Judaism is the most, has the most rules that they follow regarding what they wear, what they eat when they pray, how they pray, who they surround themselves with, and that's very historically rooted, so based on a lot of traditions years and years back, and so the concept of Judaism is a little less strict, I would say. And then reform Judaism is even less, far like farthest from Orthodox Judaism, but it's definitely just like a spectrum. It's not like you fit into one of the three categories, it's like you fall somewhere along the line and that's just based on personal preference. So, like for me, my family is conservative. As I was saying, we keep kosher in our house, so we don't mix milk and meat, we don't eat certain kinds of meat, we value going to our synagogue, maybe a little bit more than some people who are reformed, but maybe a little less than some people who are Orthodox, and that's just based on our own values. But, yeah, it's like I was saying, it's totally a spectrum, it's like a continuum.
Speaker 2:Every Jew is a good Jew, as my rabbi likes to say. Like, if you like do one thing that doesn't follow, like a commandment, but then you do the next thing that does, like you look at the present, like the thing that you did do that was the correct choice, per saying quotes, like it's still like a good thing and you're still a good Jew. You know you didn't do anything wrong by like skipping that last step and you know so. I think that's an interesting point to add. But yeah, it's definitely just like the way that your personal beliefs fall into into place and fall into practice. I would say.
Speaker 1:And I'm assuming that you, you'll fall into one of those parts of Judaism based on what happens before you and your family, right? So I'm assuming that your, your parents or grandparents were they raised in the conservative type of Judaism.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly Right. Yeah, I know some people that like are some peers of mine that are more religious now, now that they're making their own choices and they used to be in vice versa. So for my family, yes, my family is conservative and I was raised in a conservative household, but I and then my parents were also raised that way. But, like some of my friends are like less, less observant than they used to be or other way around to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, are your grandparents first generation, or have they been in America for a while? I'm just trying to get the lineage being back, as Jewish culture is so historically based.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. All my grandparents were born in America, but I have a lot of Eastern European roots. Yeah, I actually wish I knew more about my family, like history, like years back, but I do know that my grandparents were born in America and A lot of them I think all of them maybe were Midwest too, which is interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's cool, and I think the way he came on this podcast last year, he described Judaism as the tribe, like we're all together. Is that a phrase that you guys have used as well?
Speaker 2:100%. Yeah, judaism is like everyone that's Jewish is one big family. We are such a small population of the world I think it's like 0.2% or something like that Like less than 1% of the world is Jews, and so, although, like the people that I surround myself mostly are Jewish, so it seems like that's my main community, like, in the grand scheme of things, it's such a tiny percent of the people in the world. So, yes, we consider ourselves a family, a tribe, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. How do you so? You know, I've seen documentaries on Orthodox Judaism where it's like, you know, if somebody wants to leave, they get like ostracized, they can't talk with their family anymore, and I'm sure that's like the, the 1% of the 1% of the 1% of the 1%. Like that's not like every day, but like same thing, christianity, same thing. Muslims, like you can have those like different parts of a religion that are just like kind of icky and ugly. But from an Orthodox Jewish perspective, like, what are your thoughts on just that type of it where it's like very I don't know, it's hardline the right word but like that, just like we have to follow what the Old Testament is saying to a T, otherwise, you know, I don't know what the, what, the, what the stick would be in that situation. But what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I'm okay. So to preface, I'm not Orthodox, I can't speak for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fair, fair.
Speaker 2:But and even I would think they would say the same thing they wouldn't want to speak for everyone of the same, like sect of Judaism, but for me that's hard to imagine. I have such a loving family, which I'm so lucky to have, and so I don't. If I was in that position, I don't think my family would shut me out if I decided to do something different, and I know a lot of Orthodox people that would probably say the same thing that I just said, like that's just how they grew up, that's what they know, that's what they practice and that's what they love to do. But if they, if they decided that wasn't for them, I think there would. There wouldn't be a feeling of disappointment and there wouldn't be like negative connotations associated with it necessarily, but more just like there would be questions asked, but there would be you. They would probably answer like why? Why they're doing what they're doing, and so there definitely be a reason behind it.
Speaker 2:So I don't think it would be. They'd be ostracized necessarily. But I think it's situation by situation, I think it's case by case. I think the support system in Judaism as a whole is very strong. Like I was saying earlier, we're one, we're one big family and so I think again, that's case by case, but I think that I would say my feelings are I've never I haven't seen that happen to anyone. So yeah, that's an interesting point and I guess I haven't really thought about that much. But yeah, I think that's interesting to think about more.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's. It's just one of those things where it's like I love documentaries and sometimes you find one where, if you're not careful, like it can really shift your view on an entire thing, when really it's just like it's very, very minuscule from a religious perspective. So yeah. I think you phrased that well. What so? I'm a dumb person? How? What would you say to a dumb person if I were to ask what's the biggest misconception about Judaism and your perspective?
Speaker 2:Ooh, that's a tricky one. I hmm, maybe I would say well, there's two things that come to mind. The first is that all Jewish people have the same values and agreements on things, which I think is far from true, and I've explained that a little bit by describing the different aspects of Judaism. And also, well, yeah, I would think that would be the main one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's good. It's, you know, again, like it's such a far cry from where I grew up and it's like everything I know is it's not that different from Christianity. That's coming from Christians, right, but you know, it's just it's so deep seated and family and tradition like we've talked about. And I guess that leads me to another question, which is how, like why do you think it is that you don't see people converting to Judaism as much as maybe other religions, like, for example, like we don't see people processize, like you live downtown campus in Madison and like there's a bunch of like really hateful people in there that like processize about Christianity. But then there's also good people that try to do like missionary work and try to get people to join Christianity or try to get them to join Islam. You don't really see that in the Jewish faith. Why is that?
Speaker 2:Do you think, because Judaism doesn't prosproslita, proslita.
Speaker 1:You got it, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Judaism doesn't do that. That's not one of our values and, like I was saying, every Jew is a good Jew. People can convert to Judaism if they'd like, but we don't push our values on anyone else. So I think that's definitely an interesting dichotomy with other religions that do want people to convert to what they believe, but Judaism doesn't value that.
Speaker 1:Is that? Is that like a cultural thing, or is that something that is in some of the religious texts? Where does that come from?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's something in the religious texts, oh really, and we don't push our like beliefs on others. Basically.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So how do you square that Like, if you want your faith to grow, and maybe I'm, maybe I'm I'm incorrect on that, but what do you? How do you feel about that? You know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It is like it's a hard thing to get into, like it's it's a religious barrier that you have to get through. That's really tough and you have to go through and do all this work. But people aren't just like, yeah, come on, doors open. Always it's more closed and you know you really want to, you really have to want it, I guess, is what I'm getting at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have two things to say to that.
Speaker 2:The first is that there's really a stress and Judaism to marry Jewish, to bring on the next generation of Jewish individuals, and we see so much now that people are not marrying Jewish, something that my family actually talks about like a lot.
Speaker 2:It's a value that both me and my brother have, because then you bring a Jewish baby into the world and create, like more Jewish people, which we see in history and history is repeating itself again, that Jewish people are not wanted in the world and it's hard to be Jewish, and so, yeah, so by by law which the Hebrew word for that is Holocaust so holistically in Jewish law a Jew must must be born by to a Jewish mother in order to be Jewish. So I have some friends that have a Jewish father but not a Jewish mother, and I would totally still consider them Jewish there, jewish, but by Jewish law the mother must be Jewish, which is really interesting because like half Jewish is different than being like fully born to two Jewish parents. And so, yeah, I think there's in the Torah it's written be fruitful and multiply, and that's that's really stressing that value too.
Speaker 1:Got it. That's interesting. I've never heard it put that way. So like if I wanted to become Jewish, I would I be viewed at differently from like a religious perspective in your faith.
Speaker 2:No, so that's something I didn't. I forgot to mention that we totally accept people who want to be Jewish. There's a you can convert to Judaism and be interested in Judaism and want want that for yourself, and that's different than being born to Jewish parents and you'd still be a Jew, and a Jew by choice rather than a Jew by birth, by law. I guess that you're equally as Jewish.
Speaker 1:Got it. That makes sense. So let's talk about the interfaith program. What made you want to get involved with this and at UW?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've always been fascinated by religion. I think it's so cool how people can be so different and so similar, and I think that our differences unite us, and I took a class by Professor Rosenhagen, who is the leader of our fellowship, and I took a class freshman year and so I've always been intrigued and he told me about the fellowship so I wanted to get involved, and even though it's three years later, I'm glad that it's come full circle and it's really cool being able to converse with people that I wouldn't normally talk to and people that have different values and traditions than myself, and it's a great community that we've built.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's every single person I've talked to. A part of your program has been awesome and, like everybody's just so passionate and open-minded I think is a really good word that you use of just like celebrating other people's cultures, other people's faiths, religion. I think that's super important, especially today. What so? You mentioned you're a senior. You are getting your religious studies certificate. Is that correct? Yeah?
Speaker 2:It's a minor, but Madison was Got it.
Speaker 1:Got it. Oh, I didn't know that. That's interesting. I think it's like some major things that you've learned being in this program and learning about not only, probably, yourself and your own faith, but like other people's faiths. What stands out is like, wow, that was crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great question. There's lots of similarities between people's faiths, as we've talked about. Also, lots of faiths really value the idea of family, of food, of tradition, of culture, and I guess, growing up Jewish and growing up very involved in my Judaism, I didn't learn that much about other people's faiths just because I was in Jewish school and I did all those different things, and so it's really cool to now be in a setting like that, where that's so different from my elementary school, it's so different than just Jewish. So I think my wow moment was just like being surrounded by people that are both similar and different from me and we still can connect and share so many cool things.
Speaker 1:Has it been uncomfortable at all.
Speaker 2:One instance was a little bit uncomfortable. We had a discussion last meeting about just the current events going on in Israel and Gaza.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I know a lot of people in Israel. I have family there, I have people that have died there in this conflict and I've been to Israel three times, so I'm very connected and even though that's the Middle East thousands miles away, it's very personal for the Jewish community. So it was a tough conversation we had the other night, which was important interfaith dialogue for sure. But it's just so hard when I know my ways and other people know theirs and it's a community we're building but it feels so close to me and it's distant for other people so it's hard to separate that.
Speaker 2:I called my mom crying the other day and I was like mom, it's just so hard to be Jewish and that's it's something that and she's told me like that resonated with her because she was like, yeah, and I wanted you to come to that on your own, like I'm my own person, I'm 21. Like I'm old, I'm not like a young kid anymore, that's like learning. But it's just so interesting at times like these where, like Jewish people are totally singled out and are totally hated and not wanted to be on this earth, and that's so scary and it's so strong and powerful and it's just so real for us. And so we talked a little bit about that in the fellowship totally civil, nice conversation but it was made me feel a little bit like I felt weak. Like I felt weak in the conversation because there's just one of me and, as I was saying earlier, like we're 0.2% of the population or something so tiny amount of Jews in the world, and it can be really hard sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I can, I can sympathize with that. I mean that's, that's gotta be tough, especially with what's happened over the past week or so. What would you like to see different? Like if you could, if you could snap your fingers and have things be changed maybe not in like the Middle East conflict that's happening right now, but like at home. Like what things would you like to see different that might help it not seem like it's hard to be Jewish in today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean the easy answer is just world peace. Yeah, I mean that's hard to accomplish.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a little difficult. We've been trying that for a while.
Speaker 2:I think yeah, and especially here in Madison is what you're asking. I don't know. I think creating interfaith dialogue, which is what the center stands for, is incredibly important during this time. Hearing people from all sides there's usually more than two sides to like a conflict in a story like this. I think just listening and being active listeners, rather than just like just being okay with what you know and wanting to learn about other people, I think is just really important and the dialogue is necessary and interesting and engaging and I think that's something that we should really value as, like a whole community for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. So we have. I think there's eight fellows. Is that correct right now?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there are eight.
Speaker 1:Excuse me, I'm having a beer and obviously I'm burping up a storm right now, so we'll edit that out. But what are like? If you think about these different faiths, how can they relate to you better? I guess so long I didn't phrase that correctly. I'm trying to get to the point where so we have all these different types of people, all these different types of backgrounds. You know you might feel a little bit ostracized at times. Being of the Jewish faith he's mentioned. It's hard, I'm not phrasing it how I want to phrase it. Man, we'll move on. We'll move on, maybe.
Speaker 2:I'll come back to that one.
Speaker 1:That's a tough, it's a nuanced question that I want to phrase correctly. I don't want it to come across in a way that it might come across Okay. So your life in college as a Jewish person, was it what you expected? Like, was it kind of a culture shock coming from, like all these awesome things that you got to participate in as a kid and now you're far away from that, like is it what you expected, or was it a little bit different, a little weird at first?
Speaker 2:I think it's pretty much what I expected. I think I looked at a lot of different colleges, that I looked at a lot of different colleges and one of the points that I enjoyed and one of the one part of my college search process was I wanted the good Jewish community, which I guess is kind of unique and niche, but it's something that I grew up with. So I wanted that to like stay consistent, and so I know Madison is a huge campus and like the percentage of Jews is small compared to other things, but there is like a great Jewish community here which I feel very lucky to have, and I'm very involved in Chabad and I'm involved in Hillel, which is the other Jewish organization. I've also joined a historically Jewish sorority, so we're open to people of all different religions, but our sorority was founded on seven Jewish women not being able to be in a different sorority because they were excluded from those. So the history of my religion is, or the history of sorority is, jewish.
Speaker 1:Because they were Jewish.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so they found their own sorority. Keeps saying religion. But, yeah, so I've definitely involved myself in Judaism here, so I don't think it was a shock. Necessarily, I like being at a campus that's very big and has a lot of diverse values and people and different ideas. I think that's really important. But, yeah, I think I've prioritized what is best for me and how I should like view the university through many different lenses, one of which is, like, still my Jewish involvement, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. What do you? So I've asked a couple of your classmates about this what do you feel like the role of religion is gonna be like in your generation? Because and the reason why I asked this because I feel like, as a millennial, I have friends that have, you know, re-found religion after maybe having kids or something like that, and that's how my parents got back into it after having myself and my sister. But there's the millennial generation I feel like kind of has pushed it away a little bit more so than maybe the generation before us, but it feels like your generation might be coming back to it in different ways. What do you think like the role of religion is gonna play for your generation?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think for Judaism. I think cultural connection to the religion is very strong right now. I think people are enjoying being part of something much bigger than themselves and something where they can relate to other people and Judaism and other religions also. That's what I'm seeing, like I was mentioning earlier, like marrying other Jewish individuals there. We're seeing a complete downward fall of that happening. So I guess that's not like promising for the future generations, but that's just what happens, so I don't know if that totally answered your question.
Speaker 1:No, it doesn't mean. I feel like again, like it's, judaism is so cultural. It's based on lineage more than anything. The more I hear about it, the more I learn about it. So it feels like if you grew up in a Jewish household, you went to day school and you were just inundated with it, you're probably gonna continue on where the chances of that happening for somebody that was maybe raised in a Christian household might not be the case, because it's not as cultural, it's not who that person is Like. You will probably always, even if you didn't follow the faith in, we'll probably always say that you're Jewish, right, I will never say that I'm a Christian again because I don't follow that and I'm not losing anything from like a family perspective, and so I just find that fascinating. I don't really have a question there. It's just like that point is fascinating to me because it's something that I never knew up until like the past couple of years about how just deep seated it is in family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, and I also think that the Jewish history is so strong, like I think there's people look at like the history of Judaism to where it is now and to where it's gonna be, which is kind of the question you were asking, also just like the progression of the religion I think is so deep rooted and people like understand their personal history in relation to their Jewish history.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's interesting. What other things are you curious about learning over this next year that you're in school from your interfaith classmates?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm interested in learning more about like different holidays from my classmates and different traditions that are associated. I feel like I would love to learn more about like smaller holidays of their traditions that I don't know much about, and the history of that and why those are the way they are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. I think I've got my question right that I was trying to get to before. Was it scary at all to put yourself in this situation where you might be the only Jewish person in this interfaith fellowship? Like what was that? I mean because, again, because you came from school where, like you said, your entire community was Jewish, you know you can bond over that. This is completely different. You're kind of putting yourself out there, which I totally admire, but was that scary at all for you?
Speaker 2:No short answer. No, I think that the fellowship is different than a class that I would take at school, but I do think that, like it's similar to a class in the same sense that like I don't I mean I don't know my classmates' religions, you know. So it's not like I'm every day, I'm like, oh, I'm the only Jewish person in this room. So I guess it's different in the sense that, like the point of the fellowship is to talk about religion and to be that interfaith space. So I do know my, the other fellows' religions in a way that is different from a normal class. But it wasn't scary. Like I'm proud to be Jewish and as much hate as Jewish people around the world get, it's a big part of my identity. So it's something that I feel very strongly about and I'm proud of talking about and sharing with other people. So, no, I would not say it's scary.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Good for you, man. That's I think every one of you is like it's so cool Cause, I mean, you really are putting yourself out there, but you have to be confident. It sounds like from where you came from, which you obviously are. What are some things that you want to make sure that your interfaith fellows know about? Either you personally or the Jewish faith?
Speaker 2:Well, the fellowship really started off strong with like three Jewish holidays back to back at the beginning of the year, so that was a cool opportunity for me to teach other people in the fellowship about my Jewish identity, like right away. So I don't know, I think something that I would teach people is just about our traditions. I think Judaism is founded on traditions, so the same way that I want to learn about other people's like holidays and their traditions, I think I would like to engage in that the same way from my Jewish perspective.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what were some of the holidays that were that kicked off the year?
Speaker 2:So the two holiest days of the Jewish calendar are Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah. Rosh Hashanah comes before Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah translates in Hebrew Rosh means head and Shana means year, so it's head of the year, it's the new year, and then Yom Kippur is. Yom means day, and Kippur is like the day of atonement, so it follows Rosh Hashanah and so it's a day to really reflect and pray and start the new year off right. And those are the two holiest days of the Jewish calendar and they happen at the beginning of, like the school year, so September-ish. And so I taught the fellows a little bit about those holidays, two holidays that I take class off for, and I would say that Jews of all different sects come together for those holidays, because those are the two holiest holidays that there's such like longstanding history around those holidays and the whole Jewish community really comes together for those. So it's one way that we like all unite. So that was really cool to teach the other fellows about right off the bat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. I'm gonna have like a layup for you just to be like hey, this is a big part of it, right here when I come from yeah, yeah. What? How does the? How do you guys celebrate that at home? Like, what would that typically look like? And then, what questions did you get, if any that were surprising, about the holidays from your classmates?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think I'm starting with the second part of that. I don't think I got any questions that were surprising. Necessarily, I thought it was cool that I was able to teach them a little bit about the holidays, and I think I told them to Hebrew the same way that I just told you, because I think that if you understand like what, like Rosh Hashanah I'm guessing you didn't know what those two words mean.
Speaker 2:I don't think anyone would otherwise if they didn't know Hebrew, and so that really kind of puts it into your understanding in a more narrow picture rather than just like holiday. So I guess that was cool to teach about and not really I didn't really get any questions regarding that, but just cool to share that about my experience. And I guess the first part of that was you were asking about like family traditions or yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, how did you guys celebrate that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Rosh Hashanah actually fell on a weekend this year, so I went home for it, which was really nice.
Speaker 2:It was my first time doing that in college, but it was just. I felt like I would regret it if I didn't, because I it was a weekend anyway, and so I went home and I was with my family, which was super nice. We had a big dinner the night before, which we always do, and then we went to synagogue on Rosh Hashanah and then I came home. I came back to school the day after, but it was just nice to start the year off with my family and then a place that I love and I know, and so, yeah, that's how my family celebrated it this year.
Speaker 1:So other like special foods that you guys make, that that signify that, like other special prayers that you do like talk to me about, like the traditions that go along with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so apples and honey is our two foods that are representative of Rosh Hashanah, and purely just cause they're sweet. So apples and honey, there's like a song. Like apples and honey for Rosh Hashanah, like it's a it's a sweet new year, is really what we say. And so there's a prayer we say when we eat apples and honey, but before the new year, like the night before, and then continue that through the day. Yeah, there's a lot of just like traditional food that people make, like that don't have any historical meaning, but just Jewish foods that people eat on Rosh Hashanah. But I would say apples and honey for, like the sweet starch, the new year is the biggest, the biggest one.
Speaker 1:Awesome. So did you, did you make? Did you bring apples and honey to class, to, to?
Speaker 2:Salisbury? I actually didn't, but I should have yeah.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Yeah, I'll give you some questions for you and then I'll let you get back to studying. I assume what, when, when you were growing up, did you guys learn about other religions? Like how? How did you fit Judaism in with other faiths that might be around? Was that talked about even?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great question.
Speaker 2:At my elementary school we I think it was like third grade we paired with a Catholic school that was another elementary school like in the city, and so we went to them and they came to us once or twice and so I guess in the in the grand scheme of things, we barely did anything with other religions, but I still remember that school and it was interesting to compare traditions with them and you see, like what their school was up to and what we were up to, and my school did not have uniforms and their school did, and so that was an interesting thing, like when they visited us they were all wearing the same thing, and so I remember that being a point of conversation and so I guess that's very minuscule, but it was interesting to learn about another school that my school paired up with so that we could learn about them and they could learn about us.
Speaker 2:But otherwise I don't think that there was really much education about other religions, which is interesting now looking back, but it's something that I personally value is learning about other people's traditions and values and ways of life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that leads me to my other question that I was going to ask what about that is interesting to you? Like if, if you, it would be really easy for you to just be like. I'm Jewish. This is the the one faith. I believe it, my parents believe it, my grandparents believe it, and that's it. Why do you, why do you have that that desire to know what else is out there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's because partly, my Judaism is so strong for me and so I I enjoy seeing that same passion in other people and that same like strength in other people who aren't Jewish or who are. It's my friend. My Jewish friends and I actually talk about Judaism a lot because a lot of our values are so deeply rooted and even though, like I, didn't grow up in the same place as them in the U S, I mean like we carry all the same traditions and all the same memories that are like slightly different based on our families, and so it's something that's so strong in me and so I value seeing that that same strength in other people.
Speaker 1:I would say yeah, so I think I asked this question a different way, but I'll ask it again this way. Okay, is there? Is there anything that you can think of as you've gone on this journey of learning about other religions that you are surprised about or that like, oh, that's what we believe or that is completely different than what I knew growing up?
Speaker 2:I'm totally understanding the question. I feel like nothing completely comes to mind right off the bat, but there's got to be things that I've been surprised about.
Speaker 1:So I'll say the ones that were surprising to me were so Judaism doesn't have the New Testament. When I found that I was a kid I was like what do you mean? What do you mean? They don't have the New Testament. Like you guys, just stop at the Old Testament. The differences between Islam and Christianity of having an completely different book that says some of the similar things that are in the Bible, also more like New Old Testament focus those things of the actual literature were always super fascinating to me of like we have constructed entire religions around these books. They're so similar but also completely different. I just find that absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would agree with that, and I think that the Old Testament I mean it's old and Judaism, that's what Judaism looks at and understands.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I think in a similar fashion, like the city of Jerusalem, it's a holy place for lots of different religions Islam, christianity, judaism but it's in Israel, which is like the Jewish state and where the Jewish people reside. So that's like along the same lens, kind of that. Like there's a historic, historical thinking behind Judaism, which I totally understand there is for a lot of religions, but I think it like dates back farther in my brain than religions that like have the New Testament, like Christianity, or have like a place that they value. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it definitely does. Yeah, so the it being older is almost more significant to you than not, right? Yeah, yeah, that makes sense, cool, awesome. So I always end the show with a question that my wife requires that I ask, which is what didn't we talk about, that you wanted to talk about or that I didn't ask?
Speaker 2:Oh, great question.
Speaker 1:She's a smart lady.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess I'll turn it over to you what's one of the most interesting things that you've learned while doing the podcast and about religion in general.
Speaker 1:Ooh, that is a loaded question. I've talked to so many people that believe so many different things Christianity, mormons, jewish people. I had a buddy that I've only talked with one guy. That's Muslim, which is a shame. But I think the biggest thing that I always come back to is how similar they all really are. At the core of it is like be a good person and the good things will follow.
Speaker 1:And being a good person is not hard to describe, but it gets convoluted in all of these different texts and I think understanding that we're all trying to do our best here is, you know, that should be enough for a lot of us, and I think it's just fascinating to me that they all kind of center around that goodness aspect of it and sometimes people will conflate it a little bit.
Speaker 1:You know, like there's a characteristic I call, I think, with Christianity. Judaism doesn't really have that because there's no hell, but there's all these different similarities that are so fascinating to me that every time I talk with somebody I'm like yeah, that's what my other buddy said. That is atheist even. You know, like everybody's just trying to do their best at the other day is what it comes down to, and I think I love having these types of conversations and I love talking with people that are especially in your interfaith program, because all of you guys are doing what I wish our society would do more of, which is just listening. So I think those are the biggest things that might take a ways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally, I completely agree. I think like, at the end of the day, we're all just people. We're all just trying to do our thing and live our life and be the best version of ourselves. So I think it's interesting to see how religion impacts that. But I think totally I agree with what you were saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's been a fun journey. Well, thank you so much, lili, for coming on and sharing your story and just talking about your family and stuff. I think it's so fascinating, just so awesome and again, like I want to echo what I was just saying is just like what you're doing and just talking with other people is amazing, and don't feel like you're alone in these conversations. I know that it feels like that maybe right now, but we, I guess we're all here for you guys, especially if you're struggling with people that are stuck over in the Middle East right now, and just hoping for the best for you, and I wish you all the best and you're seeing you here.
Speaker 2:Thank you and thanks so much for having me on.
Speaker 1:You bet. Thanks again to Libby for coming on. It was so awesome to be able to meet her and talk with her. Next week we'll be talking with Rita Ali, so make sure to tune in for that. She is going to be the fourth person in our UW Interfaith Study Series.
